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The SAS vs. R Debate

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Re: The SAS vs. R Debate

#41
post #18
post #9

The article says this particular instance of the debate started in 2011. Things have shifted a little since then, and I think Python has won more mindshare with Pandas, SciPy, NumPy, and all the rest. I've used both Python and R, and think the next debate will be between those two, as people find that R is not a very good programming language and lacks decent libraries for things like web scraping. Python can be a si…

> R right now still wins in the number of algorithms implemented in it Can you please list some important tools implemented in R but not in Python? I'd like to know how bit the gap is.

So, I'm not a statistician but I do wind up using a lot of (R) statistics tools in my various writings: http://www.gwern.net/tags/statistics R is a terrible terrible language from my perspective as a Haskeller, but the libraries are just too fantastic for me to not use it.

A crude bit of shell (`fgrep --no-filename 'library(' .page|sed -e 's/library//'|tr -d ')'|tr -d '('|sort -u`) on my writings and a bit of cleanup gets me the following list of R libraries I use:

MASS MKmisc Rcapture XML arm biglm boot changepoint ggplot2 insol languageR lme4 lubridate metafor moonsun prodlim pwr randomForest randomForestSRC reshape2 rjson rms stringr survival verification

Some of them aren't important and I'm sure Python has equivalents to things like 'rjson', but others...? Let's look at a few.

- metafor: meta-analysis library (fixed & random-effects, forest plots, bias checks, etc). I use this in 3 meta-analyses I've done, so it's kind of important. A google of 'python meta-analysis' turns up... nothing? Well, it turns up some Bayesian stuff, but nothing jumps out as a finished polished library that one could easily reimplement my work in. ('METASOFT' sounds promising, but actually turns out to be for genomics and in Java.)

- randomForest, randomForestSRC: random forests are apparently implemented by Scikit. Great. What about random survival* forests, which I use in my Google shutdowns analysis to see if the standard survival model can be improved upon? 5th hit for 'python random survival forests' is... an R library.

- Rcapture: capture-recapture analysis, which I employ in my hafu analysis of anime/manga to try to estimate how many I may be missing. 'python capture-recapture analysis': the best-looking hit (http://www.mikemeredith.net/) is a false-positive. The relevant code is - you guessed it - in R.

- biglm: a package for incrementally updating a linear model, the idea being that you can load into memory as much data as fits, update the linear model, and load the next batch. I need this sucker for running even simple analyses on the Mnemosyne spaced repetition data set, where the database (~18GB) won't fit in my laptop's RAM. Some googling suggests that Scikit may support this. Or may not.

- lme4: the most famous library for doing multilevel models (indispensable generalizations of linear models, great for dealing with multiple measurements from the same subject; I use them on psychology or sleep data, usually). All the Python alternatives appear to either be exercises or Bayesian.

- survival: survival analysis library, used for Google shutdowns. https://stats.stackexchange.com/questions/1736/survival-anal... says you can sorta do them in Python, but you're cautioned against it and it looks like the Python alternatives don't have the Cox proportional hazards needed to use covariates.

I could go on to look at the others (any ordinal logistic regression in Python? how're the bootstrap libraries? what if I need to do power calculations for standard tests?), but I hope this gives you an idea of why I'm not doing everything in Python.

Re: The SAS vs. R Debate

#42

My company uses R, Shiny, and Rserve for nearly everything . R is a great programing language - if you need to quickly and efficiently develop stat's based features for medium sized data. R excels (get it?) at creating reproducible, fault tolerant, consistent functions that can be automated, packaged, applied to a variety of data types, and then extended later. Our web-stack is Shiny on AWS and we call our API's buil…

Are you using the open-source or "Professional" editon of Shiny? (http://www.rstudio.com/shiny/server/)

Re: The SAS vs. R Debate

#43
post #42

My company uses R, Shiny, and Rserve for nearly everything . R is a great programing language - if you need to quickly and efficiently develop stat's based features for medium sized data. R excels (get it?) at creating reproducible, fault tolerant, consistent functions that can be automated, packaged, applied to a variety of data types, and then extended later. Our web-stack is Shiny on AWS and we call our API's buil…

Are you using the open-source or "Professional" editon of Shiny? ( http://www.rstudio.com/shiny/server/ )

We're a beta client for Shiny Pro. The security features and server monitoring are quite good, and well worth it!

Re: The SAS vs. R Debate

#44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awesome. Can you tell us anything about how close they have come and how they've avoided SAS's competitive litigation? :)

They have been sued and a very interesting ruling came out of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Institute_Inc._v_World_Prog...

Wow, parts of that ruling are stunning. Thank you.
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