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Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

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Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#41
post #24

I've met a lot of people who are proud to be "the only one who knows how to do X" where X is something very important to the company or software product. They seem to think this makes them extra-valuable to the company. But I think the common perception of others is that the "valuable" employee is actually always a constant bottleneck and thus a source of pain. "We can't do X because Timmy is at his kid's soccer game…

"the only one who knows how to do X" implies a Bus Factor of 1 - which is a big weakness for the organization.

Even if some people may like being irreplaceable in this way, it's a failure of managers if they allow it to continue.

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#42
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies in Europe will do this (although with 5+ weeks). They tend to be mostly competitive. It is a bit hard to understand why US tech workers put up with not having this.

People in the US may be paying more attention to cold hard cash and less to vacation promises.

It's not a promise - the company owes you that vacation; and if you somehow don't use them, you still get paid for the unused days at end of employment no matter what. Even if the company goes bankrupt, as employee salary debt tends to outrank most other debtors.

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#43
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies in Europe will do this (although with 5+ weeks). They tend to be mostly competitive. It is a bit hard to understand why US tech workers put up with not having this.

It's not that developers don't have paid vacation. Most companies have at least 2 weeks, and a lot of tech companies give unlimited. Rather, it's a culture of working which discourages you (but doesn't prevent you) from taking that vacation.

In EU, the implicit assumption is that if vacation isn't taken, then it's because of company pressure - so generally companies must ensure that their employees get vacation or they're in violation of labor laws. Saying "well, he could've taken the vacation and we promise that it would have no effect on raises/promotions/whatever" is not an excuse, the employee must have had X days of vacation, period.

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#44
post #33

At my last employer (a small startup), we had very clear vacation rules: - Every week, you track the hours you worked (honor system- we just filed out a spreadsheet). - You’re expected to work X - 4 hours a week on average (X being a normal work week, 4 being the number of vacation hours you accrue per week). So, if you work X hours a week, you’ll find yourself with about 26 days of vacation at the end of the year. I…

Numbers like 26 and 39 vacation days tell me that you are not in North America. Over here we are talking about 10-15 vacation days per year.

No, this was in SF. I was just fudging the numbers a little: X was actually 50 hours (which I left out because it wasn’t particularly important to the story). So, if you work X hours a week, you get 4*52=208 hours of vacation. If X were 40, that’d be 208/8 = 26 days. Since it’s 50, it’s 208/10 = 21 days.

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#45
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Numbers like 26 and 39 vacation days tell me that you are not in North America. Over here we are talking about 10-15 vacation days per year.

No, this was in SF. I was just fudging the numbers a little: X was actually 50 hours (which I left out because it wasn’t particularly important to the story). So, if you work X hours a week, you get 4*52=208 hours of vacation. If X were 40, that’d be 208/8 = 26 days. Since it’s 50, it’s 208/10 = 21 days.

That said, I'm now at an "unlimited" vacation time place (still in SF), and I've had no problem asking for time off. I took 3.5 weeks around christmas for a trip to New Zealand, and I'll probably take a week this summer to visit family on the east coast (in addition to a day here and there for local trips).

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#46
post #3

I agree, the motto of 'we don't have a vacation policy, just take time off if you need it' creates usually the wrong sort of culture and dynamics, leading to guilt, etc. Lack of clarity around expectations is commonly a source of anxiety and stress. Whenever possible I encourage that people take 1 week off per quarter.

My employer does this, I don't mind it. I took a whole month off last year as a block. As an employee, what you should do is actually take their statements at face-value, but I acknowledge that this may be harder for entry-level guys.

Yes, it depends people by people, it IS OK to take that amount of time off if the 'non policy' allows it, but most people don't do that out of fear / guilt.

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#47

Swede here. I got 27 days paid vacation, not counting Saturdays and Sundays, so five weeks plus two days. Plus all the national holidays. Am I right if I understand this post as two weeks is almost an exception for Americans? If that's the case it's really saddening.

If you think that is saddening, compare your maternity/paternity leave to what workers in the United States get.

US workers have no nationwide guaranteed paid maternity or paternity leave, and 12 weeks of unpaid leave (and that only if they work at a company with 50 or more employees).

A couple states (including California) do require employers to provide 6 weeks paid leave).

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#48
the intuition behind the OP seems valid, but i wonder if it would succeed given the American concept of 'vacation.'

Americans (compared with Europeans, for instance) view vacation quite differently--in the quantity available (2-3 weeks versus 4-5 weeks); in the amount they can afford to spend on a vacation (in Europe, disposable incomes are generally lower and must be spread over a longer vacation period); and perhaps most of all in the general perception of taking vacation (ie, in the US, i have noticed many people don't even take all of their vacation and brag about that fact). w/r/t the latter point, it almost seems to me as if vacation is viewed as a sort of convalescence--ie, well it's available if you need it, but if you are strong enough then of course there will be no need.

The fact is that our jobs are not physically demanding; we do need a 'rest' from physical activity, but rather we need to rest our minds. But how do you do that when you take your vacation consists of a few four-day weekends each year in which you fly to an oceanside resort, sit by the pool with your iphone, checking your email. You are still thinking about work because there the vacation consists of nothing to replace the work thoughts. What's worse, is that you are more stressed than ever because you are thinking about work, following email but you are not there in the office to personally ensure everyone is doing exactly what they should be.

When i lived and worked in Spain, i took two multi-week vacations, always of the active kind. I enjoy alpine climbing but hiking/trekking or cycling vacations embody the same idea. The level of mental and physical engagement required means that i'm not thinking about work even if i wanted to (and i don't).

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#49

Swede here. I got 27 days paid vacation, not counting Saturdays and Sundays, so five weeks plus two days. Plus all the national holidays. Am I right if I understand this post as two weeks is almost an exception for Americans? If that's the case it's really saddening.

Two weeks is pretty standard, three weeks is the top end of normal. Anything beyond that for a first year employee is considered generous. The no-policy thing doesn't seem to be the norm in my experience, but I've certainly seen it. I consider it to be a major red flag when interviewing with a company.

Re: Why vacation at tech companies should be mandatory

#50
post #24

I've met a lot of people who are proud to be "the only one who knows how to do X" where X is something very important to the company or software product. They seem to think this makes them extra-valuable to the company. But I think the common perception of others is that the "valuable" employee is actually always a constant bottleneck and thus a source of pain. "We can't do X because Timmy is at his kid's soccer game…

"the only one who knows how to do X" implies a Bus Factor of 1 - which is a big weakness for the organization. Even if some people may like being irreplaceable in this way, it's a failure of managers if they allow it to continue.

I always try to write up documentation and offload the crap I'm doing or at least teach it to someone else.

Doesn't work that well in practice but it helps to demonstrate that I am trying to get information out of my brain into others.

I hate being "that one guy" for anything to be honest. Means I get stuck with it forever. Like one linux kernel developer said, never be the last guy to update the floppy disk driver, you'll own that code forever.

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