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Goodbye Academia

anothersb.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: Goodbye Academia

#201

Post by mathattack »

naterator wrote: post #4

These kinds of things are daily discussions in laboratories all over the world. Everyone knows there's no future in academia, and so everyone is looking for an exit plan. I actively discourage people from doing a PhD. Academia is a horrible feudalistic system that doesn't pay well enough to keep the bright minds it attracts. There is no sense in being a post-doc for life. Much better to take that hedge fund job. The…

This may be a stupid question, but is the unintended consequence of too many Phds not enough MDs?

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2014/03/04/americas-pa...

It sounds like when the free market competes with the NIH for talent, the NIH wins. Perhaps the slowdown in NIH growth can incent folks with that skillset to go into medicine.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#202

Post by DaveWalk »

skosuri wrote: post #105
naterator wrote: post #4

These kinds of things are daily discussions in laboratories all over the world. Everyone knows there's no future in academia, and so everyone is looking for an exit plan. I actively discourage people from doing a PhD. Academia is a horrible feudalistic system that doesn't pay well enough to keep the bright minds it attracts. There is no sense in being a post-doc for life. Much better to take that hedge fund job. The…

After my Ph.D., I went to a startup doing biofuels (Joule Unlimited), and then came back to academia to do a postdoc, and again it was difficult to decide between industry and academia. In the end, I chose to stay in academia because many of my goals in biotech will require a lot of fundamental research before they are able to attract angel/venture funding. As a new assistant professor (as of two months ago), I do ha…

I wanted to give you kudos for stating the level-headed answer that isn't brought up often in these doom and gloom articles:

>...funding is not so bleak that it's hopeless. [It] does however require me to pick and choose only the most promising projects

I feel part of the reason for the anger shown in this conversation is the definition of "academic freedom." Academia is more free than other avenues of research, but it isn't completely free; your grants have to be convincing enough to get funded, and this is how the system was built. This distinction can be subtle, but can only be seen with a certain degree of level-headedness.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#203

Post by cwal37 »

rachellaw wrote: post #198
cwal37 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just fyi, you would have been getting robbed if your PhD wasn't paid for.

yes that's what my professor/mentor told me. It was just hard to turn this one down since the university did not usually offer scholarships (nyu)

Well, it's not even scholarships in the traditional sense necessarily, but the department covers tuition and you get a stipend. I'm eyeing a PhD down the road, swapping with my significant other when she finishes hers, and I would also turn down any non-stipend positions.

It's really surprising to me that a wealthy university like NYU would charge PhD candidates. If you don't mind sharing, what field/topic were you considering?

Re: Goodbye Academia

#204

Post by mattfenwick »

randomsearch wrote: post #200
mattfenwick wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to present an alternative viewpoint based solely on my own personal experiences at a middling institution. (I should note that I have no industrial experience to compare to) > I found academia to be less stressful, more rewarding, and more intellectually challenging. I've found it to be quite stressful, unrewarding, and intellectually smothering. Reasons include overlong hours, jerks and bullies in positions…

ok, to clarify: I was talking about academia as a job, not as a PhD student. Also, I think your points were interesting and I didn't disagree with a lot of them, but I'd like to add a little more, don't know if this helps at all... > I've found it to be quite stressful, unrewarding, and intellectually smothering. Reasons include overlong hours, jerks and bullies in positions of power, territorial battles, arrogance a…

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'm glad you've found a way to make science work for you -- and shared your experiences -- and I wish you the all the best.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#205

Post by Balgair »

declan wrote: post #143
Balgair wrote: post #88

My brother is leaving industry and going into the ivory tower later this year. He says that it's not just the DoD or the academy, its all government funding. He says the PhD is like a union card now. Lockheed just fired 4000 people[0] and NASA's average age is about 53 [1]. The entire DoD is aging and about to retire, with no-one in the 25-50 year old range, effectively. You'd think that they would then start hiring…

Um, FedGov tax revenue continually increases in current dollars, short downturns caused by the stock and housing bubbles notwithstanding. Tax revenue for 2013 is expected to be over 50% higher than 2003, for instance: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Doc... And tax revenue for 2018 is expected to be nearly 50% higher than 2013. The idea that tax revenue has somehow "decreased" is folly. It's j…

So, where are the dollar going then? If, inflation adjusted, the revenue is going to be +50% in 4 years, then you'd think the revenue going to science would scale up just as much. The author of the piece is betting the other way. Is it SS or MediCare that is taking up more and more? Thank you very much for the correction.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#206

Post by rachellaw »

cwal37 wrote: post #203
rachellaw wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes that's what my professor/mentor told me. It was just hard to turn this one down since the university did not usually offer scholarships (nyu)

Well, it's not even scholarships in the traditional sense necessarily, but the department covers tuition and you get a stipend. I'm eyeing a PhD down the road, swapping with my significant other when she finishes hers, and I would also turn down any non-stipend positions. It's really surprising to me that a wealthy university like NYU would charge PhD candidates. If you don't mind sharing, what field/topic were you c…

Nah this was a traditional scholarship with research funding inclusive. It was difficult to turn down because of that

NYU and other private universities (Saas-fae etc.) will charge PhD candidates because they can. They have prestige, more applicants than they can deal with and the whole snob-appeal. I was going to join their Media Studies/Computer Science department

Re: Goodbye Academia

#207

Post by p1esk »

Fomite wrote: post #164
rflrob wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but that's not necessarily the case in biology, where the people are no cheaper, but the experiments are a lot more expensive. Assuming $N of grant is as easy to get in CS as biology (ha!), you'll be able to fund way more people in CS.

Agreed (I'm not a C.S. person, I'm a computational epidemiologist). This was mostly addressing the notion that because you don't need the LHC, or banks of PCR machines, or to enroll a couple thousand patients, that C.S. is somehow cheap , has zero costs, and zero pressure to get grant money. Postdocs, and computing time, and grad students, and your salary are all things that need to be supported by grant money. It mi…

I'm curious, what is the job market for computational epidemiologists?

The reason I'm asking is my gf is doing her PhD in that area, and I don't think her job prospects are very clear.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#208

Post by deong »

jpwagner wrote: post #190
deong wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem facing universities is that if they slow the rate of new PhD students and postdocs, they will quite simply have to shutter the labs. The entire system is built on the backs of very cheap research labor. That superstar researcher you see on television talking about the big new breakthrough from his or her lab hasn't written a line of code or laid hands on a beaker in 20 years. His or her job is to get a gr…

offering phd programs and granting phds is ultimately the responsibility of the university/institute. although grad students get paid little, the total cost to a lab of a grad student is higher than a tech[nical assistant]. if there were less grad students, labs would hire more techs.

I imagine it depends a lot on the field. I'm in computer science, and while a few academic research programs need lots of programmers, mostly there aren't a lot of things that a relatively untrained tech can do. We need PhD students and postdocs to actively do novel research, publish papers, and chase grants.

It's also really unlikely that we'd find anywhere near enough techs to make up the difference anyway. In CS, your options as a bright student are to go into research or go make a fortune for Facebook. We can compete with industry only because we're offering the promise of a career in research. If we had to staff the labs with people who had no desire to join academia, the costs would go up substantially.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#209

Post by cwal37 »

rachellaw wrote: post #206
cwal37 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not even scholarships in the traditional sense necessarily, but the department covers tuition and you get a stipend. I'm eyeing a PhD down the road, swapping with my significant other when she finishes hers, and I would also turn down any non-stipend positions. It's really surprising to me that a wealthy university like NYU would charge PhD candidates. If you don't mind sharing, what field/topic were you c…

Nah this was a traditional scholarship with research funding inclusive. It was difficult to turn down because of that NYU and other private universities (Saas-fae etc.) will charge PhD candidates because they can. They have prestige, more applicants than they can deal with and the whole snob-appeal. I was going to join their Media Studies/Computer Science department

Ahhh, that is a tough situation. Oh, there it is, I completely forgot they are a private university. Well, best of luck with where you're at now!

Re: Goodbye Academia

#210

Post by shas3 »

ronaldx wrote: post #123
shas3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy does not make sense. I know many colleagues who got into academia and were able to find plenty of funding. It wasn't a lucky break that helped them, but hard work and talent. The system is far from perfect, but it is not 'feudal', etc. as the parent comment claims. Systematic hard work can get you results in academia. From what I understand about show-biz, it requires a lot more than just talent and hard…

>I know many colleagues who got into academia and were able to find plenty of funding. If I parse correctly that you're in academia, you should really make more effort to understand potential sources of bias. They got into academia because they were able to find plenty of funding. This does not imply that people who offer hard work and talent will typically find funding.

You are reading too much into my remark. I have seen cases where senior faculty members (within or without the department) with experience in finding funding have mentored junior ones and helped them with their peer networks. The bottom-line when it comes to academia and funding is this: You have to play the game or opt out of it. The funding system is far from perfect, but you can work it. In some ways, it is similar to the importance of 'soft skills' in an industry setting. Your best work will not always get you promoted because there are several other considerations that matter to your bosses. Some times, the skills required to get promoted (especially for advanced stages of promotion) are different from those required to be innovative/build a great product/service.

I am in electrical engineering. DoD is by far the largest source of funds. Admittedly, hunting for research funds involves a different set of skills than 'doing great research'. But these skills are learn-able and can go a long way in helping one's career.

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