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Goodbye Academia

anothersb.blogspot.co.uk

121–130 of 217 posts

Re: Goodbye Academia

#121
There are several alternatives to the current funding giants, and I think they'll offer superior returns. If they do, NIH and others will change.

My favorite example:

Janelia Farm - I believe they expect 50% of their projects to fail.

A Janelia recruitment excerpt is illustrative (and you don't have to have done a post-doc even to lead a lab):

"We invite applications from biochemists, biologists, chemists, computer scientists, engineers, mathematicians, neurobiologists and physicists who are passionate in their pursuit of important problems in basic scientific and technical research.

All laboratories are internally funded without extramural grants. Scientists at Janelia have no formal teaching duties and minimal administrative responsibilities. Janelia labs are small groups of postdoctoral fellows, graduate students, and technicians tackling challenging research problems that are expected to have transformative impact. Group leaders are expected to engage in the direct conduct of research in a highly interactive and collaborative environment."

It's not the only way - and I doubt Janelia thinks it should be - but this style could be good for science in general. Even if funding levels return, I think they should probably return in a different form. Janelia might offer a blueprint for that.

http://www.janelia.org/

Re: Goodbye Academia

#122
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you completely miss the point of why a lot of people do a PHD. The love of the subject. Also, the pay after gaining a PHD in a certain field is most certainly worth it.

People say this kind of thing when they don't have experience of what it's actually like. A PhD is not a continuation of undergraduate or independent study in a subject. It is a career with the tedium of other careers, and then some because so many other people are trying to do the same thing you are. You may love the subject now, but that doesn't mean you are going to be able to do the research you want. At various…

I wish we would stop referring to doing a PhD as "school" and the people doing it as "students". Call it what it is. They're junior researchers. I get that doing a PhD is also meant to be a training process, but working in industry also involves training and learning.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#123
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the allures of academia is the prospect of doing fundamental research It's also a false allure: the problem is that fundamental research requires funding, and the OP is pointing out that he can't get it. He'll be in essence locked out of research and not make a lot of money at it. This is like saying, "One of the allures of acting is the prospect of being famous and sleeping with lots of fans." On the one hand…

The analogy does not make sense. I know many colleagues who got into academia and were able to find plenty of funding. It wasn't a lucky break that helped them, but hard work and talent. The system is far from perfect, but it is not 'feudal', etc. as the parent comment claims. Systematic hard work can get you results in academia. From what I understand about show-biz, it requires a lot more than just talent and hard…

>I know many colleagues who got into academia and were able to find plenty of funding.

If I parse correctly that you're in academia, you should really make more effort to understand potential sources of bias.

They got into academia because they were able to find plenty of funding. This does not imply that people who offer hard work and talent will typically find funding.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#124
This is one of my biggest fears as a physics student graduating in two months time. I love to learn and from my previous summers work I love to research. I've gotten into one of the top schools to research my dream subject. Despite all of this there is the overwhelming feeling of dread that I will dedicate myself for five years and than not be able to find a career afterwards in something even tangentially related to my research and be able to support a family. Not to mention the large debt I will still have from my undergrad.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#125
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about the philosophical debate of luck vs. effort. In my opinion, show-biz vs. academia analogy is not valid (Though there are no Jaden Smith's in academia, I won't use that as a counter-example. Doing so would perpetuate this analogy.). The metrics on which actors are judge are fuzzy and subjective at best, and spurious at worst. Academics, OTOH, (excluding China and a few other offenders) are mostly jud…

There are indeed Jaden Smiths in academia. I personally know people who did their first degree in (humanities subject) and got a PhD position in (top 5 world school) doing (in-demand science subject) and followed by a postdoc in a great institution based entirely on their father being very important in the subject. These people got funded graduate spots in the best departments in the world, beating out others who obt…

> Do you want to be the guy who refused to supervise the daughter of the nth most important person in your field?

I never witnessed literal nepotism where family relations were involved. But, this definitely does happen when it comes to academic "family"- a famous advisor's "son" or "daughter" usually has a significant edge.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#126
I wanted to be a scientist until the Superconducting Supercollider got killed by politicians, in a way which actually cost more than finishing it. After that, I stopped being interested in any grant-funded research career.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#127
I made lemonade from the lemons: came out of an MIT postdoc with a Science paper, the academic track didn't pan out (2 application cycles) but I saw that there was a need for a great online organic chemistry resource, so I started building one. 4 years in, it's self-supporting, and I have many of the advantages of an instructor with very little of the red tape I'd be experiencing if I were teaching in academia. Miss the research sometimes, but I'm sure someone would accept me as a visiting researcher for a year if I ever wanted to get back into it.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#128

These kinds of things are daily discussions in laboratories all over the world. Everyone knows there's no future in academia, and so everyone is looking for an exit plan. I actively discourage people from doing a PhD. Academia is a horrible feudalistic system that doesn't pay well enough to keep the bright minds it attracts. There is no sense in being a post-doc for life. Much better to take that hedge fund job. The…

Absolutely correct. The beauty of capitalism is that it is a blind mouse running through a maze. We won't know what the impacts of a decline in research funding will be, but there's only one way to find out! Will it be another Dark Age? Or will it be Galt's Gluch? Stay tuned!

Inspected rationally, this sort of national gamble is the definition of insanity. It wasn't "American Exceptionalism" that made the U.S.A what it is, but an unprecedented leve of concerted investment by the state into science and technology over the past century.

Let's see where this grand experiment leads us.

Relevant HN post from earlier, where I elaborate on this issue further:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7321660

Re: Goodbye Academia

#129
tldr; I get a lot of satisfaction/happiness[0] from being taught by good teachers and talking to people doing research in CS and that's why I got back to academia. Not sure what will happen after this.

=======

I first entered industry as a software engineer after my Master's from a good university in the US. I felt the job to be very structured. By `structured` I mean - goals were well defined; best practices of SE were applied; at times there was confusion of what exactly the requirement meant but we all had it sorted since meetings with managers and product managers were regular. Research there meant to dive into existing code and/or ask experienced developers around. After having spent ~10 months, I decided to apply for a PhD program. The reason I gave to a lot of my friends at the time of leaving industry was, `I didn't have enough meat to chew`. IMO the company's structure hampered my ability to learn deeper concepts of Math-CS, and made me lethargic (probably due to the compensation). Of course, had I stayed there long enough, I could have probably defined the structure, but at that time I thought there were more interesting things to study.

I was fortunate to get accepted for a PhD program. Having an average Math background, I struggled in my first year studying mathematical models behind CS, for instance queuing theory. Everyone around me had a better intuition to such things and I felt really awkward. I survived the first semester, and in the second managed to handle more than a course.

I am currently in my second year. Most of my classes are theory based and not at all intuitive to me. However, I spend hours to understand the proofs. There are some amazing theoretical work which goes in developing algorithms[1] and concepts like these this keeps me going. Of the some I understand, I feel excited. Of the ones I don't, I hope to get my head around them some day. I meet people who are great researchers. Class projects are a great way to sow seeds of research ideas and challenging since I have to compete, in some cases, with a few classmates who have a lot more knowledge in the subject. With all classes till now, I am able to do mediocre research which aligns with the research grant given to my advisor. However, in the future, I hope to do much concrete research. My advisor knows that my current focus is on courses and he's fine with me investing more time in them as opposed to research.

Till now, all this has been challenging, and exciting. I don't know whether I'll end up in the steady state[2] of research as OP pointed out or may be I am already there :)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philomathean_Society

[1] http://infolab.stanford.edu/~ullman/mmds.html

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state

Re: Goodbye Academia

#130
There's only as many grants as there are money. If he and his brilliant friends can't get grants, maybe they shouldn't have their own labs like they are trying to have. Maybe they should just work for someone else's lab, or god forbid, industry. It would be great if we had unlimited money for everyone that wants to run their own lab, but it just isn't going to happen right now.
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