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What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

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Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#61

Post by nickfarr »

wudf wrote: post #47

I read it, but I still don't understand why you plead not guilty.

Bear in mind, I didn't get a ticket from the Stop-And-Frisk incident, I got one for trespassing in Central Park a few months prior.

I plead not guilty because I was TOLD by the Police Officer that the ticket would get thrown out. I assumed this meant that the officer would not appear were I to appeal it, and when the officer appeals it gets thrown out.

What I didn't know is that the "ACD" option--Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal--was not offered to be at my arraignment. The first magistrate I saw wanted my $25, and didn't say a thing about throwing the ticket out. Not knowing my rights at the time (i.e. the ACD option), I plead Not Guilty.

Turns out the officer did appear and I was offered ACD. Had I continued with the trial, I would have made a point of the officer's statement saying that "this ticket would get thrown out as long as you appeared".

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#62

Post by nickfarr »

ted7780 wrote: post #44

I have lived in nyc for 23 years. The police used to be much cooler. The would chat with parade goers, joke around and compared to the harness bulls in Chicago they were great. After 9/11 the department changed. Meaner more suspicious and unfriendly. 10 citations a month is pretty low. One every three days. You could write that in ten minutes in the intersection outside my window. My dad was a cop. It's a hard fuckin…

I know it's a hard job...that was part of the point that I think got lost in the whole article. That being said, this intimidation strategy (along with the rampant drug war incarceration of anyone who isn't 100% clean) has "cleaned up the city". Once the crime rates start going up again, it's going to get a lot worse.

Beat cops aren't just supposed to write traffic citations. They're supposed to get a litany of these "pink ticket"s, which account for all the quality of life violations that the Broken Window theory goes after.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#63

Post by throwaway344 »

WildUtah wrote: post #57
balls187 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why that middle class, and upper middle class white individuals are now experiencing an increase in police. Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry? Another HN article referenced a Bay Area police officer making a remark about being a "wannabe billionaire."

"Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry?" Maybe. Because of the billionaire big winner image, people outside the industry see techies as very well off. In fact, cops make a lot more on average -- benefits included -- than techies or programmers or engineers. In big American cities, cops are paid similar total compensation to d…

Yeah, with my experiences with police officers who I know personally they seem to earn nothing like that.

Could you provide a source on those figures? I would be interested to learn about it.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#64

Post by lostlogin »

rdl wrote: post #46
pak wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you meant "conspicuous", the problem with this idea is that when such officers want to participate in less than stellar behavior, they will obscure the numbers (by putting on a jacket, etc.). This could be justified to their superiors for any number of "tactical" reasons. After all, many cops regularly go on duty in unmarked cars or in plainclothes. Cops are supposed to cite drivers for license plate covers…

IMO, raid jackets should have the police ID number written in the same font as POLICE (or other agency) on the back, and on the front in 2-3" high numbers. The headband of a uniform cap would also work well in addition to a name tape. There should also be a requirement that police identify themselves by name/number verbally in interactions when it is practicable to do so; e.g. "You are under arrest, I'm Officer Johns…

I'll add to that. Public access to the recorded video and audio via an established process managed by a third party (to prevent access to inappropriate content which would otherwise occur with unlimited public access).

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#65

Post by joesmo »

"The NYPD aren’t tasked with policing, the act of maintaining law and order."

Exactly. That goes for all police. Their only job duty is to make arrests. Only. It is a fallacy to think that the police are there to help. They're not even required to help by law and have no duty to do so. Once this fact is realized by someone, not interacting with police and other smart actions start to make complete sense. It's just too bad that children are wrongfully taught otherwise. It's one thing that parents can be squarely blamed for, as they usually believe the lies themselves.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#66

Post by amagumori »

nickfarr wrote: post #59
amagumori wrote: post #48

i'm inclined to agree with the first comment on the article. if the author was not a privileged, professional-looking white guy, his outcome could have quite likely been much worse. i disagree with his naive conclusion (based on a sample size of one instance of getting arrested for an extremely minor infraction) that the NYPD are largely "good people charged with bad policing tactics". the treatment of minority group…

I'm actually going to take you to task on this once, precisely because the NYPD is set to become a "minority majority" force if current hiring trends continue. I've had many, many more interactions with the police than these two incidents in a variety of different contexts and I believe they're decent human beings who want to do the right thing. The systematic mistreatment of all underprivileged groups (including poo…

i don't live in NY, so i'll concede to your actual experience with NY cops. BUT, i think your assumption that a lack of mistreatment of minorities results from a more diverse police force is naive. in my experience, i have seen abuse against ethnic minorities at the hands of police who are themselves ethnic minorities - sometimes even the same ethnicity as the victim. perhaps in many cases police brutality falls along racial lines, but only by correlation. i think it is probably more of an issue of class, and groupings like "people who look like thugs to me". either way, as a professional-looking white or asian dude, you can usually escape being classed as a "thug" sight-unseen just for your appearance.

i would also offer that due to the fact you're a successful guy, you have probably not had police interactions in, say, east new york. police attitudes and behavior are highly variable based on where they work. if you're in a shitty neighborhood, you will have much worse interactions with cops no matter your race. in nice neighborhoods, cops are nice.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#67

Post by learc83 »

WildUtah wrote: post #57
balls187 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why that middle class, and upper middle class white individuals are now experiencing an increase in police. Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry? Another HN article referenced a Bay Area police officer making a remark about being a "wannabe billionaire."

"Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry?" Maybe. Because of the billionaire big winner image, people outside the industry see techies as very well off. In fact, cops make a lot more on average -- benefits included -- than techies or programmers or engineers. In big American cities, cops are paid similar total compensation to d…

Those numbers don't sound right at all.

Bureau of Labor Statistics says the median is 55k. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm

Since you said NY is stingy, I tried other big cities. Here's a list of Chicago PD salaries. https://data.cityofchicago.org/Administration-Finance/Police... The only people on that list with a salary of 125k are ranked captain and above.

Here's the LAPD salary schedule. http://per.lacity.org/psb/lapd_salary.htm Not even close to averaging 125k

Houston PD http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee... Again, much lower than what you're talking about.

If cops in the 4 biggest cities in America aren't making that much, who is?

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#68

Post by herbig »

I'd like to create a mobile app where users can input a badge number.

If the number already exists, you get the existing profile, if it doesn't, a new profile is created, from which you can upvote or downvote the officer, add a name or picture, and write a review. Other users can upvote or downvote reviews as well.

The other part of the app would be a top 10 list of the best officers in NYC, and a top 10 worst officers.

I'm pretty alright at Android, but know nothing about iOS. We'd need a really great and simple design. The whole backend could be done with Parse.

Anyone interested?

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#69

Post by thaumasiotes »

stoolpigeon wrote: post #36
malandrew wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need to redesign officer uniforms so that the badge number is inconspicuous the same way numbers of football and soccer jerseys are inconspicuous. It should be possible to identify a police office by their badge number from any angle once you're within 10-20 feet (i.e. it should be on the front, back and both sleeves of their uniform). Cameras should be able to track officers the same way that officers can…

you mean conspicuous - inconspicuous means "not clearly visible or attracting attention".

I had exactly the same thought as rdl. "Inconspicuous" means "easily overlooked", but obviously "inconspicuous in the same way that football jersey numbers are inconspicuous" means "as easily overlooked as the number on a football jersey". There's no usage error there, just laudably vivid imagery.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#70

Post by WildUtah »

learc83 wrote: post #67
WildUtah wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry?" Maybe. Because of the billionaire big winner image, people outside the industry see techies as very well off. In fact, cops make a lot more on average -- benefits included -- than techies or programmers or engineers. In big American cities, cops are paid similar total compensation to d…

Those numbers don't sound right at all. Bureau of Labor Statistics says the median is 55k. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm Since you said NY is stingy, I tried other big cities. Here's a list of Chicago PD salaries. https://data.cityofchicago.org/Administration-Finance/Police... The only people on that list with a salary of 125k are ranked captain and above. Here's the LAPD salary schedule. http://per.la…

Cops generally make a lot more than the official base pay. They get lots of routine highly compensated overtime even when working only 2000 hours a year. Published figures usually aren't representative. Seniority gives mid career cops lots of opportunities to pad overtime hours. Check the actual pay instead of salary schedules.

Also, retirement with nearly full pay at age 50 is common.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-17/highest-paid-califo...

http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/?name=&agency=CALIFORNIA+HIGH...

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