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Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

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Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#51

Post by jessriedel »

cookingrobot wrote: post #17

Here's an alternate proposal: don't let companies donate to government, but do raise their taxes and provide adequate policing.

Voluntary cash tranfers between corporations and local municipalities have existed since time immemorial. Look at almost any town with a college.

Local government are prohibited from taking as much money as they want from local companies by statute, e.g. they can only use property taxes by fair market value.

Think of how bad greater discretion would be. Local governments are quirky and idiosyncratic, and are elected by a tiny number of citizens. They are strongly constarined in their powers by the state for a reason.

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#52

Post by e12e »

jmccree wrote: post #41
lutusp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This really means harassing and arresting problem students and undesirables who are loitering near businesses. It's also probably unconstitutional, on the ground that it produces at least the appearance of selective enforcement. This kind of goal is usually achieved by hiring a private security guard, rather than paying a (normally) taxpayer-funded police department to focus its attention on a specific zone.

I'm not really not sure about the unconstitutional argument, but it's extremely common. Normally it's done more explicitly by hiring off duty officers. NYPD has the paid detail unit to organize private details for businesses. Where I live in Atlanta, every neighborhood you'd want to live in has their own privately paid force of off-duty officers patrolling. I'm more surprised that facebook is basically offering a gra…

But off-duty officers are just civilians? They have no added powers to use force against citizens?

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#53

Post by bertil »

neilk wrote: post #32

A friend of mine owns a house a few blocks from Facebook. She has had to stay in her house due to shootings and police manhunts several times over the past few years. The problem is real and I don't blame Facebook for being concerned. Although, it's sadly typical of them to propose their own privately-paid-for police force.

I’m not sure what are the other (short-term) options: Facebook encourages employees to participate in education efforts (STEMs, mostly, for obvious recruiting reasons) and Zuckerberg himself spends a lot there too — but that takes time. De-criminalising drug trade is far more controversial than what Facebook can do. I'm sure they offer well paid jobs to local people as non-technical subsidiaries but… Short of sponsoring a cash-for-gun program, what can they do? That’s a serious question: I’m sure any idea will be explored by Facebook decision-makers who read this.

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#54

Post by e12e »

Pxtl wrote: post #45
pdkl95 wrote: post #33

Add this data point to Facebook setting up their own dorm/apartment project[1] and their efforts prevent employees from having any free time outside of work[2] so they can undo the last century or so of social progress that gave us stuff like "(classic) feminism" and "unions"[3]. Facebook is trying to set up their own Company Town . Usually, the response to this interpretation is to dismiss the possibility, with the…

To be fair, the problem is that the neighboring cities have completely failed to manage growth. The tax-bases of these places are positively exploding, but what have they done with them? Have they improved intensification in the urban core? With property values skyrocketing, builders would be lined up around the block to make condos for all these young, single developers. Better transit? Ultimately, when the local mu…

> And if you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself.

Especially when you don't pay any taxes, and therefore can't expect the municipality to take the cost?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/12/27/facebook-m...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-sho...

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#55

Post by e12e »

mmorris wrote: post #37
maaku wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NYPD can make 91K after 6 years in the service. > > Is Facebook paying less? I don't know the cost of benefit and insurance. I really doubt a single police officer will receive more than $100K benefit in three years. I would be very surprise if they do! Rule of thumb in government: double the wage to achieve full-cost of a salaried employee.

I've always heard this rule of thumb used for employees in general, not just for government workers. For example: http://blog.intuit.com/employees/how-much-does-an-employee-r...

Indeed. I suspect police officers have quite the extra cost due to presumably higher insurance premiums than an office worker.

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#56

Post by e12e »

bertil wrote: post #53
neilk wrote: post #32

A friend of mine owns a house a few blocks from Facebook. She has had to stay in her house due to shootings and police manhunts several times over the past few years. The problem is real and I don't blame Facebook for being concerned. Although, it's sadly typical of them to propose their own privately-paid-for police force.

I’m not sure what are the other (short-term) options: Facebook encourages employees to participate in education efforts (STEMs, mostly, for obvious recruiting reasons) and Zuckerberg himself spends a lot there too — but that takes time. De-criminalising drug trade is far more controversial than what Facebook can do. I'm sure they offer well paid jobs to local people as non-technical subsidiaries but… Short of sponsor…

Paying taxes would be a start?

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#57

Post by driverdan »

pdkl95 wrote: post #33

Add this data point to Facebook setting up their own dorm/apartment project[1] and their efforts prevent employees from having any free time outside of work[2] so they can undo the last century or so of social progress that gave us stuff like "(classic) feminism" and "unions"[3]. Facebook is trying to set up their own Company Town . Usually, the response to this interpretation is to dismiss the possibility, with the…

There is a huge difference between a company town, feudalism, and Facebook building company housing. Comparing FB to them is an insult to the people that suffered under those systems.

First of all FB employees are paid very well. If they decide they don't want to work for FB anymore they could find a new job in less than a day. They can easily afford housing elsewhere. FB doesn't own all the businesses in the area and isn't paying its employees in vouchers.

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#58

Post by lutusp »

jmccree wrote: post #41
lutusp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This really means harassing and arresting problem students and undesirables who are loitering near businesses. It's also probably unconstitutional, on the ground that it produces at least the appearance of selective enforcement. This kind of goal is usually achieved by hiring a private security guard, rather than paying a (normally) taxpayer-funded police department to focus its attention on a specific zone.

I'm not really not sure about the unconstitutional argument, but it's extremely common. Normally it's done more explicitly by hiring off duty officers. NYPD has the paid detail unit to organize private details for businesses. Where I live in Atlanta, every neighborhood you'd want to live in has their own privately paid force of off-duty officers patrolling. I'm more surprised that facebook is basically offering a gra…

> Normally it's done more explicitly by hiring off duty officers.

That's different. An off-duty police officer isn't acting in his official capacity as an agent of the police force, under oath. While off duty, he's just another trained civilian, suitable for private security duty.

> I'm more surprised that facebook is basically offering a grant/donation than outright hiring their own off-duty officers.

So am I -- what they're suggesting appears to be a violation of the law.

Re: Facebook offers to pay Menlo Park $600k to hire a cop

#60

Post by bertil »

e12e wrote: post #56
bertil wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what are the other (short-term) options: Facebook encourages employees to participate in education efforts (STEMs, mostly, for obvious recruiting reasons) and Zuckerberg himself spends a lot there too — but that takes time. De-criminalising drug trade is far more controversial than what Facebook can do. I'm sure they offer well paid jobs to local people as non-technical subsidiaries but… Short of sponsor…

Paying taxes would be a start?

They don’t escape tax at a local level.
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