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Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

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Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is just a short list. a) Different cultures b) Different languages c) Different tax systems d) Different company types e) Different legality All these in combination creates a lot of friction that makes it harder. There are obviously exceptions (ex. skype) but in general it's just very hard to navigate compared to the US.

Most kids are (and have been for a while) taught English in schools. If you create your site with English as the first language you can target most European countries + the US. Regarding company types you set up your business in the country you're based in - you don't need a separate company for every country you operate it. I believe the same applies to tax. You pay it in the country you are based in.

Yeah good luck building a startup in europe with that view. There is a reason why ex. Facbook localized their content.

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#12
post #8

There are no cited sources that support the premise of the article, that Europeans fear failure too much. The cherry-picked 2011 was about the peak of the Eurozone crisis and austerity measures, obviously a special time. Compare the EBAN 2011 slide in the article with optimism of the 2012 slide: http://www.eban.org/e5-1-billion-market-shows-european-angel...

It's pretty well established though. Check out this article. http://www.economist.com/node/21559618

I disagree.

If you compare Europe and US, I think there are hotbeds in each one.

However, the articles seem to compare Europe with Silicon Valley / San Francisco, which is silly.

Obviously San Francisco is special, even within the US.

Edit: Also, the Economist article doesn't address Europeans having a fear of failure.

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "it's not as easy to build huge successes in Europe." Why? Could you explain this further?

Here is just a short list. a) Different cultures b) Different languages c) Different tax systems d) Different company types e) Different legality All these in combination creates a lot of friction that makes it harder. There are obviously exceptions (ex. skype) but in general it's just very hard to navigate compared to the US.

None of these are issues that European entrepreneurs I talk to have ever had.

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#15
Snarky but true answer: failure is not always good.

Look, I'm all for removing the social penalties to good-faith failure. I've failed before (in good faith) and I'm a good guy. Some problems are harder than they look, and sometimes the solution is brilliant but no one wants it. However, I can't share that cavalier attitude toward failure that I often encounter in the HN-sphere. I would love to see society become more tolerant of good-faith failure or just bad luck, on the small scale (R&D efforts within companies) as well as the large (bankruptcy laws, a healthcare system that isn't psychotic and mean-spirited like US insurance). However, I've also seen what bad-faith failure looks like: businesses that might start with earnest intention but evolve into long cons. People who call themselves "entrepreneurs" are not all ethical. Some are, some aren't.

Failure hurts people. Money disappears, jobs are lost, and sometimes peoples' careers get ruined. I've lost about $500,000 (mostly, opportunity cost and career retardation) to bad startups.

Sometimes failure is no one's fault and a learning experience. Sometimes, there's some serious malfeasance behind it. If you've been around tech as long as I have (and I'm only 30) you know that there are some really wonderful people, but also some really terrible people, in it.

There are some severe issues involved in the question of how to handle business failure: moral hazard, asymmetric risk. Most people attack these hard ethical questions by falling back on instinct and social proof: the way they separate bad-faith and good-faith failure is by asking around, checking references, reading news articles. That's how the Valley works: it tolerates failure if you can convince it that you failed in good faith, but the waters are so murky that social proof rules the day. That, predictably, makes the worst kinds of people (social influence peddlers) powerful, and they evolve into extortionists and manipulators. It turns into a feudalistic reputation economy. It's not a scalable solution. It's actually hypocritical, because a world in which reputation and social access matter that much is exactly the sort of world that becomes risk-averse and sclerotic. (That takes time, but you see it happening in the Valley.)

The happy medium is somewhere in between the risk-averse conservatism of Europe and the Midwest, and the pro-failure attitude of California, which arrives either at recklessness or hypocrisy. Maybe Seattle? (I'm considering moving to the PNW in 2015, so I've given this a lot of thought.)

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#16
As a brit we do not fear failiure, its well known that Up to one fifth of the 400000 businesses that start up each year fail within the first 12 months of operation in the UK.

investors dont write blank cheques is the main difference. we are blunt and dont flower up potential so monetry failiure is more relative to business size.

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#17
As a brit we do not fear failiure, its well known that Up to one fifth of the 400000 businesses that start up each year fail within the first 12 months of operation in the UK.

investors dont write blank cheques is the main difference. we are blunt and dont flower up potential so monetry failiure is more relative to business size.

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#18
To desire failure, this probably means you are trying to do something new. Below I am speaking purely on conjecture, no real sound theory.

I get the distinct impression that Europe cares more about tradition and therefore less about disruption. As such, there is not as big a desire to try something new, and therefore no reason to consider whether failure is good. In fact, if the emphasis is on tradition, failure is frowned on not because it is bad, but rather, because it is evidence that someone tried to do something new.

My thoughts on this come from a chapter of Alan Greenspan's memoirs on his experience in Vienna and thoughts on cultural differences, especially when it came to Vienna's timelessness and beauty.

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#19
post #16

As a brit we do not fear failiure, its well known that Up to one fifth of the 400000 businesses that start up each year fail within the first 12 months of operation in the UK. investors dont write blank cheques is the main difference. we are blunt and dont flower up potential so monetry failiure is more relative to business size.

>we are blunt and dont flower up potential

This nails it. You're not going to even investigate potential - your investors don't have that kind of vision (or interest). Not a snowball's chance in Hell a Brit VC would have acted as Peter Thiel did when he came on board with Facebook. Because that would have been "flowering up potential".

Or as I like to call it, vision.

Re: Why haven’t European investors fully accepted the failure is good mentality yet?

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "it's not as easy to build huge successes in Europe." Why? Could you explain this further?

It's cultural, Europeans don't believe in making something large from nothing. The idea of a kid with a laptop building an international business, as Zuckerberg was doing, is laughable to them. (And delusional.) They'd probably tell him to go back to school so he can get a real job.

Do you have evidence for that at all? Because it sounds like bollocks to me.

The more obvious factors are almost certainly the case - more complex regulatory environment, smaller market, a lower concentration of capital sloshing around than in SV… and myriad other reasons.

Blaming this on an artificial 'European' culture is facile.

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