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"Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

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Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#211

Post by baddox »

djur wrote: post #70
baddox wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And like I implied in my last comment, a lot more of what Apple does relies on the consent of its stakeholders than what governments do. There's a tragic irony in the fact that government routinely uses supposed consent to justify violence, while Apple (as far as I know, although shady stuff might happen from time to time) actually obtains consent from its stakeholders. Apple doesn't have to go around telling everyon…

The nation I'm a citizen of has a government that renews the consent of the government on a regular basis with free, fair, universal elections. I'm sorry if you don't live in such a country. The guillotine is a traditional remedy for that. Apple doesn't have to do that because we don't rely on it to safeguard our life, liberty, and property. If it disappeared tomorrow the economy would take a hit but life would go on…

> The nation I'm a citizen of has a government that renews the consent of the government on a regular basis with free, fair, universal elections.

At best, that just renews the consent of those who do consent. If I didn't vote, or voted for the losing candidate or option, then I am still governed despite not consenting.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#212

Post by baddox »

claudius wrote: post #116
dreamdu5t wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elections aren't an election of anyone's consent to be governed.

You are free not to use any of the services offered by society to you, which obviously requires leaving the country.

> You are free not to use any of the services offered by society to you, which obviously requires leaving the country.

You are free to avoid me killing you. Just leave your house and never come back so I can live in your house in peace. Ridiculous logic.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#213

Post by baddox »

djur wrote: post #93
dreamdu5t wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody alive today has ever consented to government. There is no negotiation. "Consent of the governed" is sophistry.

The people have the right to vote in whatever government they want. If that right is abridged or taken away, they can kill the people doing that until the right is restored. That is the consent of the governed.

No, that's still just consent of those who consent.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#214

Post by baddox »

dmoo wrote: post #95
dreamdu5t wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody alive today has ever consented to government. There is no negotiation. "Consent of the governed" is sophistry.

From time to time people withdraw that consent, like in the Ukraine at the moment.

And yet, they're still governed, and you can bet they will still be governed after this struggle is over.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#215

Post by baddox »

alkonaut wrote: post #120

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The point for me isn't so much "protection" against unforseen expenses it's just that I want to know up front what costs money and what doesn't. When I browse for a free app I don't want to see the crippled in-app-unlockable app next to the truly free app. Strict rules for prices in marketing is a prerequisite for a functioning market, my other pet peeve is the contract phone. Not on…

> The point for me isn't so much "protection" against unforseen expenses it's just that I want to know up front what costs money and what doesn't.

I also prefer to know up front what things cost or might end up costing. I guess the difference between us is that I make a distinction between my preferences and what policies I think should be forcefully implemented by governments.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#216

Post by mikesena »

BHAHAHAHAHA I just love how many people are getting their arms up about this, then you find out its because they're the CEO of Supercell.

"Free to play" should not be a model which says, "Free, but in order to actually, well, WIN, you need to pay". Take a look at Dota 2. Thats a successful f2p model. Game itself is 100% free and you can be a top player without paying a DIME.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#217

Post by Dylan16807 »

smsm42 wrote: post #184
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are selfish all the time. They threaten others with guns, to get cash. They blackmail, and coerce, and cheat. Smart people too. Now, don't know if selfish irresponsible use of intoxicants rises to that level, but the argument can be made. E.g. alcohol laws are everywhere, and its not even a very good intoxicant.

Argument can be also made it's selfish for you not to give me half of your money. So I am entitled to threaten you with a gun, to get cash you're selfishly denying me. There can be a lot of arguments made once you abandon the notion of rights that people have.

Obviously we are talking about reasonable arguments.

I think if you go out and make a poll you will find intense disagreement on whether there is a right to [severe] self-harm. Please don't strawman into the idea of abandoning all rights.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#218

Post by pgopalan »

ig1 wrote: post #114

A lot of people are making false assumptions about what this is about; Here's the actual EU release rather than a blog rewrite: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-187_en.htm?locale... The actual issue is "Often consumers are not fully aware that they are spending money because their credit cards get charged by default." - so it's not an issue of people disliking paywalls in free games, it's an issue of people…

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Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#219

Post by djur »

baddox wrote: post #211
djur wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nation I'm a citizen of has a government that renews the consent of the government on a regular basis with free, fair, universal elections. I'm sorry if you don't live in such a country. The guillotine is a traditional remedy for that. Apple doesn't have to do that because we don't rely on it to safeguard our life, liberty, and property. If it disappeared tomorrow the economy would take a hit but life would go on…

> The nation I'm a citizen of has a government that renews the consent of the government on a regular basis with free, fair, universal elections. At best, that just renews the consent of those who do consent. If I didn't vote, or voted for the losing candidate or option, then I am still governed despite not consenting.

"Consent of the governed" refers to consent of the polity (by some form of majoritarian process), not to individual consent. Individuals do not have the unrestricted option to remove themselves from society; universal consent is unnecessary, unworkable, and undesirable.

Re: "Free-to-play" misleading advertising in Europe

#220

Post by girvo »

watwut wrote: post #166
girvo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad I'm not the only one there. Although some apps a quick search will show that it's worth it (Paper by 53 comes to mind). Which is something I find interesting: people talk about "discovery" and reviews of apps being difficult. You're on a device that's sole purpose is internet connectivity! Use the browser, Luke!

Not sure if you know it, but there is zero information on the internet for the wast majority of apps. Even if there are reviews, they are done by people who played for five minutes and then wrote something as fast as possible. I wanted to play (and buy) a game the other day. It turned out that unless friend brought and recommended, there is no way to learn about gameplay, difficulty, length, whether there are in app…

I suppose I don't personally get enough apps to have found that myself; usually if there's an app I'm considering it's fairly simple to find a decent review, but they are bigger names.

I wonder if there is a solution for that then? The same way as things like Polygon keep on top of standard games, a mobile focused review site that has far higher quality than regular "review sites" (that yeah, most of which are pretty terrible).

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