Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#1

Post by tortilla » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 4:22 PM UTC

Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane
seattletimes.nwsource.com

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#2

Post by TrevorJ » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 4:46 PM UTC

They are working with novel materials, this sort of trouble isn't unprecedented, look at the de Havilland Comet problems in 1954 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet

We didn't fully understand metal fatigue at the time and these beautifully designed planes started falling out of the sky.

There are going to be unanticipated design problems to work out, it's to be expected.

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#3

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 4:48 PM UTC

There is a very good reason why the aircraft industry is very conservative when it comes to introducing new materials, and their testing procedures are about as rigid as it gets.

Good thing they caught this on the ground, there have been way too many accidents with passenger aircraft lately. Losing a plane this big would be a tremendous disaster.

This is going to affect Boeing financially quite a bit as well.

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#4

Post by timr » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 4:56 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #3

There is a very good reason why the aircraft industry is very conservative when it comes to introducing new materials, and their testing procedures are about as rigid as it gets. Good thing they caught this on the ground, there have been way too many accidents with passenger aircraft lately. Losing a plane this big would be a tremendous disaster. This is going to affect Boeing financially quite a bit as well.

They say right in the article that this flaw would have been unlikely to bring down a plane. The most likely outcome would have been increased maintenance costs for owners.

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#5

Post by tortilla » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 4:59 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #3

There is a very good reason why the aircraft industry is very conservative when it comes to introducing new materials, and their testing procedures are about as rigid as it gets. Good thing they caught this on the ground, there have been way too many accidents with passenger aircraft lately. Losing a plane this big would be a tremendous disaster. This is going to affect Boeing financially quite a bit as well.

But didn't they outsource a lot of the work (~70%), including wing design? Not very conservative if you ask me.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/dev_team.html

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#6

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 5:07 PM UTC

tortilla wrote: post #5

jacquesm wrote: post #3

There is a very good reason why the aircraft industry is very conservative when it comes to introducing new materials, and their testing procedures are about as rigid as it gets. Good thing they caught this on the ground, there have been way too many accidents with passenger aircraft lately. Losing a plane this big would be a tremendous disaster. This is going to affect Boeing financially quite a bit as well.

But didn't they outsource a lot of the work (~70%), including wing design? Not very conservative if you ask me. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/dev_team.html

They'll test it to the hilt on integration, you can literally depend on that.

Conservative wrt to testing, documentation and procedures as well as a healthy dose of skepticism about new technology.

Just try adding a new piece of avionics to an existing plane or changing something after the airworthiness certificate has been issued.

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#7

Post by yread » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 5:10 PM UTC

Hm as one commenter there says fixing wing box design flaw with retrofits doesn't make me feel like flying it

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#8

Post by justlearning » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 5:18 PM UTC

Aha! now the story behind makes sense!

for perspective, strongly suggest to read "micks56"'s comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=668067

posted a month back on a similar article (Bumpy Ride for Boeing's 787 Dreamliner : http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=668025)

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#9

Post by joezydeco » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 5:26 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #4

jacquesm wrote: post #3

There is a very good reason why the aircraft industry is very conservative when it comes to introducing new materials, and their testing procedures are about as rigid as it gets. Good thing they caught this on the ground, there have been way too many accidents with passenger aircraft lately. Losing a plane this big would be a tremendous disaster. This is going to affect Boeing financially quite a bit as well.

They say right in the article that this flaw would have been unlikely to bring down a plane. The most likely outcome would have been increased maintenance costs for owners.

Right. A normal wing will never bend 150% beyond it's limits in even the worst flight conditions. But it's a testament to how strict the FAA is about engineering new planes.

Watch the similar test done on the 777:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe9PVaFGl3o

Re: Boeing 787 wing flaw extends inside plane

#10

Post by smhinsey » Thu, Jul 30, 2009, 7:47 PM UTC

tortilla wrote: post #5

jacquesm wrote: post #3

There is a very good reason why the aircraft industry is very conservative when it comes to introducing new materials, and their testing procedures are about as rigid as it gets. Good thing they caught this on the ground, there have been way too many accidents with passenger aircraft lately. Losing a plane this big would be a tremendous disaster. This is going to affect Boeing financially quite a bit as well.

But didn't they outsource a lot of the work (~70%), including wing design? Not very conservative if you ask me. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/dev_team.html

Apparently this is largely the result of new management. After Alan Mulaly left for Ford, their culture shifted dramatically from the engineering/conservative mindset to a bottom-line-driven outsourcing model.