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Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

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Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#111
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news, he has! http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/09/the-post-jobs-era-tim-c... http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57370922-37/apple-ceo-tim-...

Cool, good to hear, I didn't know about this. It seems to be a small step, but at least it's a step in the right direction. I hope Apple makes it a point to advertise everywhere that they're doing this (so that other companies can follow). I think America would do well to have a policy compelling publicly owned companies to have social goals (apart from the profit-maximizing ones).

Why not just admit that you wrongly impugned them?

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#112
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's sustainability efforts (and other things like support for blind users) can be seen as being in the interest of profits. The NCPPR's view that Apple should do the minimum necessary to meet government environmental rules in order to maximise profits is short-sighted. A lot of people care about environmental issues - as well as things like labour concerns with the factories in China. By doing the right thing and…

If only Tim Cook said that instead of saying "I don't consider the bloody ROI, and if you don't like that, divest". There's a legit approach of going short term, and it may be wrong, and if it is wrong, it can be explained why it is wrong - just as you did. Or it can be shouted down - because how dare those neanderthals ask us questions? I'd rather like to live in a climate where questions get answered, not shouted d…

There comes a point where questions themselves are being used as an abusive form of politics. At that point, a display of anger is totally appropriate.

Tim Cook has a responsibility to protect himself as CEO, the company itself, and the other shareholders, from manipulative questioning by a fringe group. He also has a responsibility to stand for the company's values.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#113
post #47

All things being equal, I'd like it if Apple provided these numbers to shareholders/the public. I support Apple continuing to participate in these programs, but giving shareholders accurate numbers seems like a worthy goal, and I'd actually like to know the scale of Apple's investment in green energy as a benchmark for how far along the green energy industry is coming -- if it's a 100% markup, it's got a long way to…

It might be a worthy goal, but it might also be destructive to shareholder value if it results in shifting attention to green politics and a nasty battle with climate change deniers.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#114
post #93

"The representative asked Mr. Cook if that was the case only because of government subsidies on green energy. Mr. Cook didn't directly answer that question" It's a shareholder meeting. Answer the question. Unless the answer is embarrassing, which, without more data, we have to assume it is.

Assuming it is embarrassing is a baseless attack on Tim Cook. We could equally assume that it was an irrelevant line of discussion that would allow extremists to distract the meeting from important business. This was a shareholder meeting, not a trial.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#115
post #6

Came for the comic sans, stayed for the delicious irony of a think tank run on outside donations complaining to the most profitable company in the world that they aren't focused enough on ROI.

Calling them a 'think tank' implies there may be actual thinking going on. They are anti-science climate change denialists, so 'think tank' is being overly optimistic here.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lynn Stout, a Cornell Corporate Law Professor, seems to disagree with you: http://www.amazon.com/Shareholder-Value-Myth-Shareholders-Co...

Having never heard of Lynn Stout, her claim to fame on Wikipedia is that Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens cited her work in Citizens United v Federal Exchange Commission... in the dissent. I could believe that oxygen doesn't exist, and I could probably find somebody else to agree with that, perhaps even an author or something, but if there exists a body of law that is on the books and that will punish you for…

Saying that "primacy" equals "short term profits" is also too unqualified and counter to the facts.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#117
Go Tim - Its true what they say about the quiet Englishman OK IDS is the exception.

What should have really happened is that another voter at the meeting should have called move next business and have the motion dumped.

Moving next business is a very brutal way of a meeting telling some one with a not wanted motion to FO - defiantly would send the right message.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#118
post #82

I understand and agree with the idea that companies should maximise shareholder value, but I've never understood the argument that shareholder value is exclusively determined by profit. As I see it, the stock market consists of various firms saying "buy our stock, and we will try to achieve X with your investment", where X might be maximum ROI, but I don't understand why it has to be. If I want to found a company whi…

If Tim Cook would actually say "yes, our green energy project has costed us N dollars so far, and it is a good thing because that's what we do and because government actually pays us back M dollars of it with that sweet taxpayer money" - that would be free market. Well, except for the taxpayer money part, but that's hardly Tim Cook's fault. Instead, no actual information was given, and people asking wrong questions w…

> I'm not an Apple shareholder (except as part of broad index funds) and probably never will be, but if I were, I'd like my executive to be more open and ready to answer hard questions than that.

There is an interesting dynamic here however. Let's suppose arguendo that the sustainability program is money-losing in and of itself -- buying coal-generated electricity is cheaper than maintaining a wind farm (or whatever) even after the subsidies. That doesn't actually mean it has a negative ROI, because the sustainability program is good PR. It builds goodwill that spurs purchases and evangelism. And Apple needs good PR following all that business with the Chinese factory working conditions.

So now here's the trouble. If you're doing green energy for the purposes of public relations, and some troll from the burn more fossil fuels lobby starts asking you about the numbers, you can't come out and say "the numbers don't matter because it's a PR stunt" -- that wouldn't be good PR. You have to give the line about how you run a corporation with a conscience blah blah blah, because that's the line that keeps the yuppies buying Apple hardware. If you come out and say the whole sustainability initiative is to convince Green party voters to buy iPhones made in a city with soupy air in a factory with suicide nets by workers who never leave company property, or downplay the amount of money it costs you to do it, the Green party voters will hear that and not buy as many gadgets from you. The necessary line is to play up how selfless you are in doing all of this, because anything else defeats the premise.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#119
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't decide if I want to respond to this by pointing out that it is argumentum ad populum or as an ad hominem (poisoning the well) argument. Hmmm, after much consideration, gonna go with ad hominem.

What's your point? Incidentally, what logical arguments would you recommend one use against people who have rejected science as a legitimate world view?

In a parliamentary type of meeting which share holder meetings are - move next business is one way of dumping cranks.

If the trolls whine quote Citrine (UK) or Roberts (USA) at them.

And I have used Citrine as away of keeping control of a share holder meeting.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#120
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having never heard of Lynn Stout, her claim to fame on Wikipedia is that Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens cited her work in Citizens United v Federal Exchange Commission... in the dissent. I could believe that oxygen doesn't exist, and I could probably find somebody else to agree with that, perhaps even an author or something, but if there exists a body of law that is on the books and that will punish you for…

Saying that "primacy" equals "short term profits" is also too unqualified and counter to the facts.

Which is why I didn't suggest that it was.

The claim I was responding to was this > "It's actually a myth that a company has to maximize shareholdervalue."

There's plenty of evidence that, myth or not, the courts certainly think that it's real, and if the courts think that it is, then it cannot be a myth.

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