Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR • Hacker News Board

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#21

Post by dhoulb » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:17 AM UTC

Zigurd wrote: post #14

sheetjs wrote: post #4

> "If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock." While I agree with his sentiment, I wish he took a moment to explain that pursuing environmental sustainability may actually help the top line (rather than insinuating that those goals are net negative to shareholders)

That's a rathole to avoid if you can. It may sound dismissive, but these guys are cranks, and their time in the spotlight is rightly to be minimized. 97%+ of shareholders understand that Apple goes the extra mile in sustainability and agrees with that approach.

Completely agree. Whether or not worker safety contributes to ROI should never be a question. Same with environmental impact.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#22

Post by zorpner » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:22 AM UTC

fdschoeneman wrote: post #13

sc68cal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's concern trolling - they do not offer these proposals to actually get the information - they are looking for ammunition to stir the pot.

Like I said, forget their opinions, but also forget their motivations. What is wrong with the request?

As a couple other people have already noted, it's not actually a request for information. It's an attempt to gain a high-profile platform to promote an ideological position, which can be deduced from examining the motivations of the requester. You can't decouple the motivation from the request -- they're two parts of the same object.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#23

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:26 AM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #8

" said that there are many things Apple does because they are right and just, and that a return on investment (ROI) was not the primary consideration on such issues" The next time someone trots out the tired old "companies are legally obligated to maximize profits/shareholder value" to explain away crappy corporate behavior, I'm linking to this. And kudos to Cook for telling NCPPR to take a figurative hike.

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#24

Post by alexeisadeski3 » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:26 AM UTC

DiabloD3 wrote: post #2

Companies shouldn't always do things for profit, because doing things only for profit, well, isn't profitable. Good will has a monetary value, and it is often worth far more than just making money is. I never said I was eloquent.

Sounds like you're saying that companies should only do things for profit - but only if it's actually profitable :)

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#25

Post by cpncrunch » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:28 AM UTC

fdschoeneman wrote: post #13

sc68cal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's concern trolling - they do not offer these proposals to actually get the information - they are looking for ammunition to stir the pot.

Like I said, forget their opinions, but also forget their motivations. What is wrong with the request?

There is nothing wrong with the request. However it was soundly rejected by the shareholders (only 2.95%). That's how corporate democracy works. The problem is that they kept pushing to get their way even after they had been voted down by the shareholders.

The more I hear about Tim Cook, the more I admire him. That was a really great put-down he delivered. There comes a point where you can't reason any further with unreasonable people and you just have to tell them to fuck off.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#26

Post by sramsay » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:33 AM UTC

I'm pleased that Tim Cook said this, but Apple has been marketing itself as the manufacturer of counter-cultural hippy objects for anarchic outside-the-box geniuses for decades, while at the same time behaving like any other RoI-driven capitalist enterprise -- worse than most, in my opinion.

I'm not even convinced that this wasn't, despite appearances, a prepared statement designed to re-assure stockholders.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#27

Post by selmnoo » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:35 AM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #8

" said that there are many things Apple does because they are right and just, and that a return on investment (ROI) was not the primary consideration on such issues" The next time someone trots out the tired old "companies are legally obligated to maximize profits/shareholder value" to explain away crappy corporate behavior, I'm linking to this. And kudos to Cook for telling NCPPR to take a figurative hike.

Yeah because that's just what we need, another asinine interpretation of an event in which the CEO was basically hand-tied to do one thing: not fuck up PR. And let's just ignore the legal precedents where companies were sued for their philanthropic work, and indeed lost. (see the many court cases in which courts end up ruling that companies are not allowed to engage in purely philanthropic duties when there is a rigid fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits; see eBay vs. Craigslist).

And anyway, actions speak louder than words. What I know of Apple is that it had a CEO who orchestrated keeping wages down for engineers, orchestrated price fixing of ebooks, kept taking credit for other people's work, frequently partook in borderline psychopathic behavior (woz: "I begged Steve that we donate the first Apple I to a woman who took computers into elementary schools but he made my buy it and donate it myself."), etc. etc. If Tim Cook actually goes on to commit some serious dollar on philanthropic activities, I would change my mind about Apple, until then, it's clear that it's all a bullshit PR dance.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#28

Post by mrcwinn » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:37 AM UTC

sramsay wrote: post #26

I'm pleased that Tim Cook said this, but Apple has been marketing itself as the manufacturer of counter-cultural hippy objects for anarchic outside-the-box geniuses for decades, while at the same time behaving like any other RoI-driven capitalist enterprise -- worse than most, in my opinion. I'm not even convinced that this wasn't, despite appearances, a prepared statement designed to re-assure stockholders.

The world gets far too complicated if we not only choose to respond to events, but also attempt to assess the motives of the parties whose minds we can't get inside of.

A "think tank" demanded the world's most profitable company focus more on profitability while implicitly claiming — incorrectly — that renewable energy can't save money. Think what you will of either sides motives, but Tim Cook said and did the right thing here and that's about where we can leave it.

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#29

Post by IBM » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:43 AM UTC

selmnoo wrote: post #27

mikestew wrote: post #8

" said that there are many things Apple does because they are right and just, and that a return on investment (ROI) was not the primary consideration on such issues" The next time someone trots out the tired old "companies are legally obligated to maximize profits/shareholder value" to explain away crappy corporate behavior, I'm linking to this. And kudos to Cook for telling NCPPR to take a figurative hike.

Yeah because that's just what we need, another asinine interpretation of an event in which the CEO was basically hand-tied to do one thing: not fuck up PR. And let's just ignore the legal precedents where companies were sued for their philanthropic work, and indeed lost. (see the many court cases in which courts end up ruling that companies are not allowed to engage in purely philanthropic duties when there is a rigi…

Good news, he has!

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/09/the-post-jobs-era-tim-c...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57370922-37/apple-ceo-tim-...

Re: Tim Cook Rejects Politics of the NCPPR

#30

Post by mitchty » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:45 AM UTC

sramsay wrote: post #26

I'm pleased that Tim Cook said this, but Apple has been marketing itself as the manufacturer of counter-cultural hippy objects for anarchic outside-the-box geniuses for decades, while at the same time behaving like any other RoI-driven capitalist enterprise -- worse than most, in my opinion. I'm not even convinced that this wasn't, despite appearances, a prepared statement designed to re-assure stockholders.

Could we once, not have to play favorite sports team with companies and enjoy a CEO talking down a shareholder that is trying to play politics? Of course not, now we need to play into conspiracy theories that this whole thing was a prepared statement by Apple.

No, I guess we can't not be us vs them on things as tech people. Always have to play teams at all times. After all EVERYONE hates the Yankees cause they are successful. This crap crops up on every story not about actual technical things (even then) be it Google, Microsoft, or Apple, or whatever.

Gets draining to be honest, I use a combination of the above's products. People seem to want to follow some type of religious zeal to this crap.

Some days I want to just go move to a remote greek mountain and cut out my vocal cords and ears so I don't have to endure constant bickering about this junk.

/rant/squirrel mode banter off I'm going to bed.