They are most likely being held by the U.S. Government.
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1z2xo5/specu...
Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
181–190 of 205 posts
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Visualising it in something like KeyLines ( http://keylines.com/ ) would be awesome.
Couldn't find a single download link or pricing/buy link.
It's under Pricing in the FAQ page (the gist: contact them via the contact link to discuss a price, because it's apparently too complicated to estimate), but yeah, the FAQ seems like rather an odd place to relegate such an important aspect to.
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a bit new to bitcoins, but is it technically possible for the bitcoins community as a whole to make a blacklist of bitcoins addresses and "ban" the stolen bitcoins ? Such blacklist would daunt robbers and enforce public trust in bitcoins.
This is not technically speaking impossible, but the Bitcoin community has a visceral hatred for the idea, because it allows off-blockchain-entities to effectively deprive them of the use of their coins. It also undermines trust in the currency generally, since why accept Bitcoins if there is the possibility that you'd be paid with black Bitcoins instead of white Bitcoins, when you're practically speaking guaranteed…
Since the blockchain is a consesus of a majority of miners, could we not roll the blockchain back to before Mtgox screwed the pooch?
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#184Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
But what if I steal a Bitcoin and exchange it directly to USD. If the coin is banned later my counterparty, who acted in good faith, is left with an empty bag.
In that case, it's like any other stolen good. If you accept stolen property, you don't hold title to it, whether or not your intentions were honest.
Traditionally, this is not the case with money. The money asset is different from all other assets in this respect. This matter was settled in Scotland over 300 years ago. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2260952
The result is that even if you can prove that someone else holds a dollar bill that was stolen from you at some point, you do not necessarily have the right to get it back.
See also the Wikipedia article on the principle of "Nemo dat quod non habet" ("no one gives what he doesn't have"): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#186In November of 2011 Mt. Gox demonstrated control of 500k BTC. I followed the 500,000 BTC for a bit beginning at https://blockchain.info/tx/b269bf1b82dae8a61f7f91dbf7a9d807e... . The coins move around and small amounts are sent away, but the majority ends up back in Mt. Gox's main (hot) wallet. This repeats a few times until the majority is paid back to the main Mt.Gox address. Here is the transaction where it starts…
Could these be the coins? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z8bqb/jed_mccaleb_...
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think I'd rather be hauled off to prison than be the target of such ire.
Lol.. you've clearly never been to jail, much less prison.
I'm a middle class male.
If 4chan gets pissed off at me, my available recourse involves scouring all data traces I've made across the Internet and then hoping I did it fast enough before the pain train begins. At best, I could post some kind of apology or concession and pray they lose interest.
If the government wanted to put me in jail, my available recourse starts with a reasonably well documented legal system interested in fairly representing and judging me and extends all the way to, well... asking 4chan for help.
Maybe if I were black or female or gay, I'd prefer 4chan's treatment, but only maybe.
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not technically speaking impossible, but the Bitcoin community has a visceral hatred for the idea, because it allows off-blockchain-entities to effectively deprive them of the use of their coins. It also undermines trust in the currency generally, since why accept Bitcoins if there is the possibility that you'd be paid with black Bitcoins instead of white Bitcoins, when you're practically speaking guaranteed…
Since the blockchain is a consesus of a majority of miners, could we not roll the blockchain back to before Mtgox screwed the pooch?
Nobody who sold anything for bitcoin since before the rollback point would consent to this.
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Couldn't find a single download link or pricing/buy link.
It's under Pricing in the FAQ page (the gist: contact them via the contact link to discuss a price, because it's apparently too complicated to estimate), but yeah, the FAQ seems like rather an odd place to relegate such an important aspect to.
Perhaps it's under the frequently asked questions because no one can find the bloody thing. Thanks for pointing it out though.
Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?
#190So if the bitcoins are seized by some government entity....wouldn't that make the total value of bitcoin go up? Supply and demand and all that... Again, I know very, very little about bitcoin or economics in general.
Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. They only have value in trade. If I started my own currency called a superdollar, and I had the only superdollar in existence, it would be worthless, despite the fact that it was very rare. If a foreign entity can make the bitcoins you have disappear, that leads to less confidence in your ability to use the bitcoins for trade. The fact that there's fewer out there doesn't mean yours…
That's an excellent explanation and I appreciate it. I'm sure you've simplified some, but it makes sense to me.