Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 160 posts

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#141

Post by eqdw »

kevingadd wrote: post #57
eqdw wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A fairly small studio apartment in the area where I live is approaching $2000/mo, minimum Unless you live in NY, SF (/me waves!), or DC, that number is grossly out of touch with the actual costs of rent in the United States.

http://priceonomics.com/the-rise-of-bay-area-rent-prices/ This is from 2013. It hasn't gotten better. Their median for the city I live in is $2395 (and for reference, I'm an hour+ drive from San Francisco; ~2 hours by train). Rents around me have definitely been going up, even if they're not at $2400. And that's for studios/1 bedrooms. If I were to move into the exact apartment I have now, the rent on the lease would…

When I said "NY, SF, DC" I meant the metro areas, not the cities.

My friend is fond of telling me I could get a sweet 1000sqft loft in downtown Houston for $1200/mo or so. Or a regular apartment for half that.

Of course, to me, not living in Texas is worth the extra thousand dollars a month

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#142

Post by azth »

mikeyouse wrote: post #67
RealGeek wrote: post #52

I recently moved to US (from India) and I was shocked to see how the "free market" economy is structured to bankrupt the middle class and poor. Indians have far less income than Americans but are somehow able to save more. Here are some basic problems I see with economy: 1) Rent: When people are paying half their paycheck to rent a studio apartment, there is something seriously wrong. The monthly rent in most areas i…

1) Those are false choices. If rent is $2,000/month, a mortgage would be far more than $1,500. Just an example, my rent is near $2k in SF, an equivalent sized unit on my block just sold for $700k. If you could put 20% down (just save $140,000!), a 30-year mortgage would be $3,500/month -- 75% more than renting. 2) Get a new healthcare plan through Healthcare.gov. The out-of-pocket maximum is $12,700 for a family plan…

> 4) Call around and get a deal, my phone plan is $65/month

Which provider are you with?

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#143

Post by benched »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #136
benched wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good comment. Of course I've seen a lot of these Microsoft effects on the area first-hand (I worked there for 5 years, well after that was any big advantage, of course). Once again though, I am not trying to say that I have it that bad. What I'm saying is that if my own situation qualifies as doing really well, then there is something very fucked up on a large scale.

I'm not sure how it is "fucked up" for you at all. Go buy that $400k house that you can afford if you don't like living in a downtown studio. You'll be among the few millennials that own houses. As it stands, you're in the top 5% of earners in the country. If you want something more extravagant than the linked Zillow home above, then move out of Seattle and remote work out of your own $400k Pittsburgh mansion. Here's…

No matter how many times I've said I'm not complaining about me, but rather using my experience as an indicator of how things must be in the big picture for many others, people just keep on responding like I'm only talking about me. Is it seriously that hard for people to think beyond self?

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#144

Post by mikeash »

Mz wrote: post #140
mikeash wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'm judging, but rather asking and proposing/guessing. Let's say his rent is $1,000/month, if that's the biggest expense then rent, medical, and dental together won't be more than $3,000/month. That's a ton of money for basic expenses, but easily doable on $110k/year with plenty left over.

You seem to have missed my point entirely. SRO means "single room occupancy" -- in other words a room like a dorm room where the bathroom is down the hall and shared with the rest of the floor. It's basically a walk-in closet with a bed and maybe a sink. My point was that when I lived in the Bay Area, $1k (or more) bought you a slum in SF of a sort that doesn't even exist in many places. So do not assume a studio apa…

Well, without actually knowing where his money is going (thus why I asked) it's impossible to say. I had no trouble digging up apartment listings for Seattle studios (or bigger) under $1,000, but who knows if he's in one of those or in something more expensive.

I think you may have missed my point as well: being financially insecure as a single man making $110k/year is weird, and has to be due to individual circumstances (whether bad luck or bad planning) and has nothing to do with the economy as a whole.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#145

Post by mikeash »

eqdw wrote: post #53
kevingadd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you list cell phones and the internet before you list housing, your sense of scale is completely off. Even if somebody's spending $200/mo on telephone and internet connectivity, that still pales in comparison to the cost of rent in pretty much any part of the country. A fairly small studio apartment in the area where I live is approaching $2000/mo, minimum - to pay less than that I'd probably have to move…

> A fairly small studio apartment in the area where I live is approaching $2000/mo, minimum Unless you live in NY, SF (/me waves!), or DC, that number is grossly out of touch with the actual costs of rent in the United States.

Even for DC that's deeply out of touch. I spent about two minutes on apartments.com and found a building in Arlington, nice neighborhood and right on two Metro lines, with studios for $1200/month. $2000/month can get you two bedrooms with a balcony and about 900 ft^2.

I get the feeling that people are confusing the rents in extremely desirable neighborhoods with the rents you must pay to be in the city at all.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#146

Post by kevingadd »

greggman wrote: post #135
kevingadd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Move somewhere else' is totally missing the point. If everyone moves to those particular low-rent places, that increases the demand there, and rents will go up until housing supply increases to meet demand (or, like SF, it never increases and prices just keep going up). This is ignoring the problem of finding work in low-rent areas (though telecommuting at least makes that less difficult.) To me, 'the problem is whe…

We're not talking about a minimum wage worker. The OP said he made > $100k a year. I'm not sure what your point is. Plenty of people choose to live in cheaper places for lower salaries or for that matter cheaper places for the same salary. Plenty of people also choose to live far from work and have a really long commute. It's a CHOICE. You make it, you live with it. If you want to live in an expensive place that's al…

Calling it a choice is absurd. People don't choose where they're born, where their family lives, where their job opportunities are, and where they can get access to essential health care and other resources.

People like you or me certainly choose to move to LA or Seattle or San Francisco for a cushy tech job, but that's a tiny percentage of the population.

To me, this is like telling a diabetic that they 'choose' to inject insulin and check their blood sugar every day. Certainly they can exercise free will and stop, but there are severe consequences that make that not a realistic option.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#147

Post by eqdw »

jisaacstone wrote: post #55

Too many hippies on this thread. The biggest problem with the us economy currently is the erosion of middle class jobs for unskilled and semi-skilled labor. My grandparents lived comfortably on union jobs. Most of those jobs are gone now, and those that exist are paying less all the time. I know a man who is 60 working in a lumber mill making less then he ever has in his life (40+ years of factory work). Yes sure con…

> Yes sure consumption has increased with affluence but Many people don't realize how hard it is for an unskilled and unconnected person to find any kind of work.

I wish the focus of the US public discourse was less "how terrible is it that these unskilled people can't find jobs" and more "how can we provide economic stability to these unskilled people and help them become skilled"

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#148

Post by eqdw »

tedsanders wrote: post #64
benched wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can't really know my grandparents' state of mind. But my grandfather drove trucks locally, and my grandmother worked in a supermarket. Try to imagine affording a single family house and two cars with jobs like that today. They always seemed like they enjoyed their jobs. My grandfather kept working long after retirement age. I never heard them complain about their jobs or give any indication they didn't like t…

Thanks for your reply. Maybe it has to do with WWII. After WWII, the US was the only great economic power left undamaged. Our industries supplied the world, and they boomed. That wealth trickled down to many people in the US. Now, decades after WWII, other countries around the world have developed their own industry, driving down global prices and wages. As a result, perhaps the average global worker is better off, b…

> I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000.

I live in a shitty small apartment in a run down part of SF, and my annual rent is $20,000. Either you're talking net income, PA is way cheaper than I've been led to believe, or there's some factor I'm missing

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#149

Post by eqdw »

cm2012 wrote: post #78

I make $65000 in NYC and support my wife also. We live in a 2 bedroom with a one hour commute. At this time I feel like I'm making more money than I can easily spend - and easily better off than any generation of my white american family before me. I eat out or order in 5 times a week at least. Its hard for me to imagine scraping by at $110k, truthfully.

I've had discussions with my friend in NYC. He's married in NYC, I'm single in SF. My salary is $10k/yr more than his, so why do I feel like I'm barely getting by, while he's doing all these crazy Rich New York Person things.

So I did some rough calculations. According to paycheckcity.com, despite his making $10k gross less than me, when you factor in tax differences (between states, and his marital status), his take-home is $6000 MORE than me.

If you make $65k gross in NYC, and you're married, by half-assed extrapolation that puts you in the same boat as a single person in SF making $80k. Still not 110k, but a substantial difference.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#150

Post by subrat_rout »

azth wrote: post #142
mikeyouse wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Those are false choices. If rent is $2,000/month, a mortgage would be far more than $1,500. Just an example, my rent is near $2k in SF, an equivalent sized unit on my block just sold for $700k. If you could put 20% down (just save $140,000!), a 30-year mortgage would be $3,500/month -- 75% more than renting. 2) Get a new healthcare plan through Healthcare.gov. The out-of-pocket maximum is $12,700 for a family plan…

> 4) Call around and get a deal, my phone plan is $65/month Which provider are you with?

You can get a phone plan for $10/month (unlimited talk and text no internet though) and $25/month(unlimited talk, text and data) from Republic wireless. Only caveat is, the plan is limited to android and you have to buy the phone for $299.00 upfront.
Post reply on HN