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Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#131

Post by deweller »

rsiqueira wrote: post #122
deweller wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't trace these coins to 1BoGw97oS9L2mU8HTQqpm7yxC72H4LCm6i. Can you share how you did it?

You showed that account 1M1ZkWpHfuQthji2AVsGDvpfY2PrcXQar6 had about 430000 BTC and split coins in 2 other accounts and so on. I followed one of the splits and its subsequents: 14qKyR7b86JVHn5mfm6Dm3G756BgxhMqMP received 203002 BTC. Then it sent 202658 BTC to 13JAudzPvKYyBtY9XpkhNW3YdDqBsi3c7Q. Then it sent 108570 BTC to 144rbLnQmwH8MbB5iirSqvaPgXB9NMdcdb. Then it sent 44505 BTC to 18pGH9G1FtpAkBt1zHTDuYXxPFMXqPG8PU.…

Wow! Thanks. Did you just find that manually?

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#133

Post by jneal »

shakethemonkey wrote: post #128
Spooky23 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, it's like any other stolen good. If you accept stolen property, you don't hold title to it, whether or not your intentions were honest.

So now both the BTC and the USD are now stolen? You mean that conversion doubles the number of stolen goods?

This is no different from real life scenarios. Suppose someone stole a $5000 ring, sold it for $2500. The ring is still stolen, the police can and will confiscate the ring, so the buyer is out of the $5000 ring and their $2500 paid for the stolen property. The ring is stolen from the owner, the money is stolen from the buyer.

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#134

Post by btcfn »

chevreuil wrote: post #48
deweller wrote: post #28

In November of 2011 Mt. Gox demonstrated control of 500k BTC. I followed the 500,000 BTC for a bit beginning at https://blockchain.info/tx/b269bf1b82dae8a61f7f91dbf7a9d807e... . The coins move around and small amounts are sent away, but the majority ends up back in Mt. Gox's main (hot) wallet. This repeats a few times until the majority is paid back to the main Mt.Gox address. Here is the transaction where it starts…

I'm a bit new to bitcoins, but is it technically possible for the bitcoins community as a whole to make a blacklist of bitcoins addresses and "ban" the stolen bitcoins ? Such blacklist would daunt robbers and enforce public trust in bitcoins.

Impossible. You'd have to somehow convince ALL miners to not process them.

Fungibility prevents you from simply blacklisting these coins.

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.it/2013/12/why-bitcoin-fun...

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#135

Post by quandrum »

sbierwagen wrote: post #127
mars wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's common practice to anonymize bitcoins. google 'bitcoin tumbling service'.

Tumbling only works if you're a small fraction of the total. If you put $300 million into a tumbler that only has $1 million of other volume, then it's pretty easy to track you.

Sure, but if you have access to $300 million and want to tumble $1 million, wouldn't it be hard to track you?

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#136

Post by [deleted] »

jackgavigan wrote: post #58
deweller wrote: post #28

In November of 2011 Mt. Gox demonstrated control of 500k BTC. I followed the 500,000 BTC for a bit beginning at https://blockchain.info/tx/b269bf1b82dae8a61f7f91dbf7a9d807e... . The coins move around and small amounts are sent away, but the majority ends up back in Mt. Gox's main (hot) wallet. This repeats a few times until the majority is paid back to the main Mt.Gox address. Here is the transaction where it starts…

> Why take 429k and split it into many addresses each containing less than 1,000 BTC each? Ever heard the adage "Don't put all your eggs in one basket"? It's possible that MtGox used to operate everything from a single, large wallet but decided to split it up into lots of smaller wallets, to avoid the risk of suffering a single, catastrophic compromise.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#137

Post by marvin »

rst wrote: post #96
tommo123 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that. "Prove you're not a drug dealer and we'll see if there's still money to return." It kind of gives the middle fingers to 3 somewhat-important US rights: the right to not self-incriminate (being coerced into providing new evidence that might be used against you), being considered innocent until proven guilty (assets seized without an active case against you), and that everyone is equal under the law (unles…

There would be precedent, in the form of cash seizure "civil forfeiture" proceedings at both the State and Federal level: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_...

Asset forfeiture is, and always has been, a clear violation of the rule of law. (A suspect is innocent until proven guilty). Precedent or no.

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#138

Post by krishnasrinivas »

colinbartlett wrote: post #83
davidw wrote: post #20

"The Lost BitCoins of Mt Gox" sounds like a good Scooby Doo episode. Or Hardy Boys?

Velma yanks off mask. Daphne gasps "Mr. Karpeles!" Fred: "Mark Karpeles was the thief all along!" Karpeles: "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!"

haha :-) upvoting this.

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#139

Post by JTon »

erichurkman wrote: post #121
enraged_camel wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Ever heard the adage "Don't put all your eggs in one basket"? I'm pretty sure the opposite is also true though, as in "don't split all your eggs among thousands of little baskets." I mean, at some point the overhead of managing all of those wallets must outweigh the risk of having everything in one wallet, right?

They should have written a check that runs periodically to check that the sum of all wallets equals their total BTC according to their ledgers. You have to write that process anyway, it shouldn't matter too much if it has to examine 100 wallets or 10,000 wallets.

I wouldn't want to be the guy tracing and debugging that process. Not saying it can't be done, but the extra complexity might do more harm than good

Re: Ask HN: Where are the 750k Bitcoins lost by Mt. Gox?

#140

Post by pmorici »

jnbiche wrote: post #9
fredgrott wrote: post #7

Here s an idea.. Feds sized silk road and the Bitcoin wallets If any was stored or transacted at MTGox this might be some of the amount of losses MTGOX is now showing but NOT ALL OF The lOSSeS obviously

Bingo. The Feds seized their cold wallet somehow. Mark has said repeatedly that Mt. Gox is under investigation and that he can't talk about it. There's a supposed IRC log from two days ago where he let it slip that he's under a gag order, saying two days ago "le gouv US ne veut pas qu'on disclose" (the US gov. doesn't want us to say anything)[0]. And he's said in public that he can't discuss the matter since he's und…

"There's a supposed IRC log from two days ago where he let it slip that he's under a gag order"

It isn't supposed you can go read the IRC transcript. He said no such thing. What did happen is, in response to the question of what would he like to tell everyone who is waiting for news he replied with a link to a image with a Batman quote about failure. The image happened to be hosted on an image sharing site called 9gag.com. People think that was his secret way of signaling that since the word "gag" was in the website's URL. It is a total ridiculous conspiracy theory to think that he is under some kind of gag order that is preventing him from telling the truth about what happened to the coins.

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