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Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

online.wsj.com

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Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#81

Post by mtgoxloser »

bbosh wrote: post #78
mtgoxloser wrote: post #37

In this incident I lost a bit more than $500,000 USD that was in my MtGox account. I sold my Bitcoins a few months back, but the USD have been sitting in my account waiting to be withdrawn. This was a massive fuck up by MtGox, but I really do feel sorry for Mark Karpeles. He seemed really enthusiastic about Bitcoin. Right by MtGox's offices in Japan was a Bitcoin Cafe being built. You can [see here]( http://si.wsj.ne…

Did you invest $500,000 in real dollars, or earn it from mining?

Majority of it was from mining, but I had already realized my profits.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#82

Post by NotOscarWilde »

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but they still have not said how much of the (700k + 100k) BTC was stolen and how much was just "lost" by technical incompetence, right?

As another Mt. Gox loser (sent my money back a few months before the end, of course they never arrived) this is one question that pains me the most. I don't care too much whether Karpeles goes to jail or not, but I want to know whether theft was made or just gross incompetence.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#83

Post by lukifer »

hanswesterbeek wrote: post #58
theklub wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I get the feeling more and more everyday that this really is just a ponzi scheme built on really cool new technology. I mean honestly most people who buy bitcoin aren't looking to spend it or use it because of convenience, they are looking to hold it in the hopes that the price continues to go up and on the way encouraging everyone they know to buy in to drive up the price.

Yeah, the technology fascinates me as well, it's very cool. It's said that the real-world economics of it make no sense at all. The technology will survive though, the ideas will make their way into other pieces of software.

Economics is merely a form of social contract. For god's sake, humans have turned gigantic immovable rocks into currency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones

BitCoin will thrive (or not) based on the community that grows around the technology. While it's equally feasible that it becomes a major world currency, or that it collapses in value and held only by a handful of "crypto-enthusiasts", I don't think it will ever go away.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#84

Post by steven2012 »

mtgoxloser wrote: post #65
MWil wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it may be lost to spend but can't you spread the loss out over some years and never pay taxes for that period?

Losses can only be taken on your initial investment amount if you have Bitcoins in MtGox. This means that if you invested $10k a year back, and your Bitcoins are now worth $1000k, you can only take $10k in losses. Luckily I have realized my gains which means I can deduct $3k every year in losses with infinite rollover.

I believe your understanding if the situation is flawed, if you are a US citizen. The $3000 per year applies to capital losses. You did not suffer a capital loss. You suffered a loss due to bank insolvency.

If you realized your gains in 2013, you actually owe taxes on $500,000 for your 2013 taxes, which is roughly $250k.

I believe your losses due to bank insolvency will apply to your income for 2014. But you may be on the hook for $250,000 in income taxes this year. But it probably won't offset your tax liability from 2013.

And the state of NYC subpoenaed MtGox's records so they may share this with the IRS.

I would consult a CPA if I were you, you could have a huge tax liability with no adequate way to offset it.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#85

Post by 300bps »

NotOscarWilde wrote: post #82

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but they still have not said how much of the (700k + 100k) BTC was stolen and how much was just "lost" by technical incompetence, right? As another Mt. Gox loser (sent my money back a few months before the end, of course they never arrived) this is one question that pains me the most. I don't care too much whether Karpeles goes to jail or not, but I want to know whether theft was made…

they still have not said how much of the BTC was stolen and how much was just "lost" by technical incompetence, right

Unfortunately, they are known liars. Right up until days before bankruptcy filing they were telling people they were working to resume withdrawals. It doesn't matter what they say at this point or anything they've said in the past because their words do not in any way reflect reality.

The only thing left is to investigate and if the facts show fraud has occurred, then prosecute.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#86

Post by pbjorkmarker »

Perhaps naïve question but can't see any info on this one. So, the Bitcoin ledger is still intact. 750,000 is quite a lot of Bitcoins to be stolen. Mt.Gox may have been shitty built but they must have kept some logs, account databases, etc. What are the odds of recovering the coins/exchange money that was lost? Technically sounds like pretty good odds? No?

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#87

Post by terranstyler »

My take: If the money was stolen this year, it was theft by a third party and they were maybe incompetent, however, this is not punishable, see politics.

If it was stolen last year, they made all existing (and even worse: new) costumers since the time of the theft believe that they would get their money back. This is fraud.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#88

Post by dangrossman »

stef25 wrote: post #61
SquareWheel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you planning to buy it as an investment, or to use it as a currency? If the latter, this is not a good time because the currency is less stable than ever. But it could arguably be a good time to "invest" if that's your thing.

Invest

What makes BTC a better investment opportunity for you than, say, some stock in Tesla or Amazon?

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#89

Post by ck2 »

bodski wrote: post #12
ck2 wrote: post #9

It's easy to be angry at them and/or see how stupid they were about accounting, security, etc. But I guess on the other hand we do have to realize they are victims of massive theft, as far as we know this massive loss was not due to their own profiteering or internal theft, it was an organized outside force targeting them. It occurs to me it is like blaming someone for getting mugged, although they were stupid enough…

It seems it is too early to state with any certainty that MtGox are also a victim here. http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/28/the-gox-crater-crowd-detecti... http://letstalkbitcoin.com/the-ghost-in-the-machine-at-mtgox...

These are very interesting reads if only for the facts they lay out in detail.
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