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We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

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Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#281

Post by coolsunglasses »

refurb wrote: post #276
coolsunglasses wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is highly location dependent and programmers are often located in expensive cities. 100k in the bay area is just middle class, no upper qualification. Very unlikely to afford a home within 25 minutes of work unless they're in the south bay. You need 200k total household income before a mortgage on a $1.3mm house (starter home cost in most neighborhoods) is realistic. There is a 10x difference in the cost of a ho…

$1.3MM will get you a VERY nice home in some of the more exclusive neighborhoods in SF (Noe Valley). Only in SF do you have people complaining that they are "middle class" because they can't afford a single family home (already a luxury in major US cities) in a ritzy neighborhood and have to suffer through a >25 min commute. Houses in SF on the edge of the ritzy neighborhoods cost $700k. But that's not living the ame…

$700k is still freakin' crazy.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#282

Post by Dewie »

adamdavis wrote: post #237
parennoob wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to suggest that the life as a programmer working from home is as dangerous as the life of a career coal miner seems a bit absurd to me. As it does to me. But the idea that coal-mining jobs are dangerous is probably due to stuff you read, or the recent media coverage of trapped miners in Chile (well, a few years ago). Anecdotally, I also hear of a lot of people in desk jobs just dropping dead of heart attacks at rel…

I think the major difference, which I mention in my edit, is the risks that we're suggesting are dangerous to a programmer aren't a direct result of the occupation. In the general case, I don't believe that anything about being a programmer stops someone from exercising on a regular basis (edit: or maintaining a healthy diet).

There have been articles and studies relatively recently about the health risks of a sedentary lifestyle, and how that in some ways can not simply be "cancelled out" by a reasonable diet and exercise regime. In other words, even though you might exercise a lot, it might not negate all the health risks of sitting on your ass for around 8 hours a day. The exercise is beneficial, but you can not use it to "make up for" being inactive a lot.

The fixes might be simple; maybe stand up and walk for three minutes every three hours. Maybe use a standing desk standing up for a couple of hours a day. Not that both of these may be necessary, but not sufficient by themselves.

These may be simple habits to adopt but then the problem is, will your employer accept that you get a BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ'ing standing desk, or that you go up to "get a glass of water" very frequently (of course really to move about some)? I don't know, but it might be more of a social problem than a habit/technical one.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#283

Post by mch0lic »

It's not really a problem in Lithuanian, but rather in the mindset of poorly educated/older generation people there. Being Lithuanian I never received a single word of encouragement from my friends or family, but rather was threatened that starting business will lead me to poverty or I would simply fail. Luckily, I spend quite a lot of time abroad (mostly SE Asia) and seen how random local village person would start his burger stall, if that fails try cooking some fried rice and even if that fails bringing money home try selling noodles or whatever else. I mean those guys would never give up and that's sort of mindset that let's you have a better life.

Personally I try not to spend to much time back home even I'm officially running business there, I much rather stay in Mauritius as I do now, or go back to SE Asia. Being around enthusiastic and happy people makes you one too and once you happy money is no longer an issue, it just finds its way to you..

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#284

Post by jokoon »

Maybe.

That doesn't change the fact that I can't find a job in another sector just because I know programming.

That fact is IT actually saves a lot of money to the extent that effect is proportional to the sum of innovation.

It's true that it's an easier life to know programming nowadays, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a better life if you're a programmer, hired or not.

I think programmers should not complain about anything or their job if they chose to swallow the blue pill and work a programming job they don't like, coding for a project they don't like.

I think you can complain if you got at least ideas for solutions that have not been tried. If you don't, and you work a job you don't like, then don't complain, because you're part of the problem.

Programming is not always about making a project work. Programming is mostly about innovation and making new useful things and improving old things.

I don't understand why most of the IT landscape is still email and http and html, technologies that have been created at the very beginning.

I think most jobs are luxurious jobs, but that's because the government is more effective than in other places. If you do programming but you don't like what you do, maybe it's because the work you're being given is just shitty. Maybe it's better than doing a shit job, but sitting doing something you don't like is as much turning people crazy than anything else.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#285

Post by phryk »

"Even more people are getting their butts of the beds every morning, going to the job they hate, just to support the basic needs."

And you think that programmers don't? I work as a badly underpaid php developer and have slept on a couch in a ~35m² single-room apartment for the last few years. I handed in my resignation this week, because this job causes depressions that make me borderline suicidal. I'll have to live off of state welfare, if I can get it, if I don't then I'll be homeless, but I just can't take this shit anymore, so I'm taking the plunge and hope for the best.

For every well-paid and -treated programmer there are a whole bunch of underpaid and ill-treated ones. Besides, what's so wrong about not wanting to work? You as someone with a good grip on what technology can do should see that we could've started to automate the production of things needed for basic survival (food, shelter, energy…) decades, if not even longer, ago.

As far as I can tell, programmers have far greater chances to end up with depression or burnout than most other jobs, so please don't act like it's all sunshine and unicorn farts for all of us.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#286

Post by phryk »

phryk wrote: post #285

"Even more people are getting their butts of the beds every morning, going to the job they hate, just to support the basic needs." And you think that programmers don't? I work as a badly underpaid php developer and have slept on a couch in a ~35m² single-room apartment for the last few years. I handed in my resignation this week, because this job causes depressions that make me borderline suicidal. I'll have to live…

Of course we already have this sort of stuff largely automated; I meant in a way that doesn't just make profit for a small minority of the population.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#287

Post by starmanjones »

our jobs are sweat shops, too, sweat shops of the mind.

You can handle it now, but when you get older, it will be torture.

Does your dad have a 30 year mortgage to pay off? And high property taxes?

No.

So that means he owns a house outright and thus does not have to work 45 years.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#288

Post by seunosewa »

samstave wrote: post #19

No, I am keenly, almost obsessively aware of how lucky I am and how fragile my situation can be. I have three kids, a stay at home wife, make a considerable salary and have a job I absolutely love and excel at. But I am still fundamentally subsisting; my living expenses are just covered by what I make and am not able to save a considerable amount. This scares the bejesus out of me because all my kids are young: I hav…

After your second kid, it should have been quite clear to you that you would not be able to have a third kid and save as much as you should. Why did you choose to have the 3rd kid?

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#289

Post by ithkuil »

Yes I realize some/most of us have a privileged job. However, I believe that it's reasonable that people who are exceptionally talented expect something better.

Sometimes you know you are exceptionally talented, they tell you, you know how to build stuff, how to fix stuff, how to get to the heart of the problem, how to learn new stuff quickly, how to write down code and documentation.

Yet you have move countries (sometimes at the expense of family and quality of life) and/or spend hours every day commuting because your company values physical presence above all that.

I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to complain.

Even if we are lucky, lucky to have talent or just lucky that the talent we have is highly valued (unfortunately not all talented people are so lucky), I still think it's reasonable to complain.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#290

Post by ap22213 »

Yes, programming is very luxurious. And, I try to remind myself of that everyday. I earn 2-3 times that of most of my non-programmer friends. And, generally, it's been a luscious existence.

But, I think the mechanisms of my brain that make me good at programming also make me prone to emotional stress, misery, mood cycles, etc. So, yeah, even though I love programming, especially regarding the creative aspects, I also sometimes wish I could have been born with different genes.

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