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Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

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Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#21

As mentioned in other comments, you have to trust Apple to hand you the correct public keys. They could easily MITM you and decrypt the messages on the server if they misrepresent the other party's public key. Additionally, the iMessages you send are signed by your private key, which is probably not something you want.

> iMessages you send are signed by your private key, which is probably not something you want.

Why not?

Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#22
post #17

As mentioned in other comments, you have to trust Apple to hand you the correct public keys. They could easily MITM you and decrypt the messages on the server if they misrepresent the other party's public key. Additionally, the iMessages you send are signed by your private key, which is probably not something you want.

More to the point, they could be forced under court order (or FAA 702 order etc.) to MITM. This is a cousin to the Lavabit scenario. Nothing wrong with end-to-end encryption, folks. Why don't we have more of it?

> Nothing wrong with end-to-end encryption, folks. Why don't we have more of it?

Complacency and laziness. There is no excuse.

Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#23

The way Apple could "read" the messages is by sending a keybag down to the person sending the messages with another public key, one that Apple holds the private key for. For example if you have 3 devices (iPhone, iPad, MBP) and someone goes to send you a message, they have to re-encrypt the message three times because Apple would have sent them three public keys. Now if Apple were evil because of a government order,…

Lawful intercept isn't evil.

that depends on if the law is moral or immoral. Anything can be turned into law.

Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users get both a push notification and email when a new device is added to the key bag. So additionally this step would need to be maliciously skipped.

And since Apple owns the infrastructure and we can't validate anything about it, there is little reason to believe they couldn't maliciously skip steps.

Actually, is it not possible to do a count on the key bag?

Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#25

Author isn't very clever about crypto attacks. Sending device grabs all of the recipients public keys (as well as all of their own keys for other devices, which allows the conversation to be replicated on all of their own devices as well) hosted by Apple. Sending device has no way to verify those keys belong to the intended recipient . User has no way to verify which, or how many devices they are sending to. User doe…

Users get both a push notification and email when a new device is added to the key bag. So additionally this step would need to be maliciously skipped.

That would only be the case if someone does it by logging in to your iCloud account, which applies to none of these attack scenarios. Even then, it only notifies the owner of that account, not the party who is sending messages to unverified keys.

If you're spoofing the keyserver, it's invisible to Apple. If you're the FBI and serving a warrant on Apple, Apple does not send the message telling you that "FBI's MacBook Pro has logged in to your iCloud Account."

Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#28
post #27

That sounds great and super secure, but all I wanted was a single line goto statement fixed asap. Took forever and basically made my phone, tablet, personal laptop and gifts I gave for Christmas insecure for a long time.

I'm afraid they were as secure as Apple crumble, indeed.

Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And since Apple owns the infrastructure and we can't validate anything about it, there is little reason to believe they couldn't maliciously skip steps.

Actually, is it not possible to do a count on the key bag?

A custom-written third party client could theoretically do this (and mitigate most of the other attacks here). What Apple provides won't help with this though.

Think of an SSH client that never verifies host keys and never warns you when they change. That's basically what iMessage is.

Re: Apple Explains How Secure iMessage Is

#30
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More to the point, they could be forced under court order (or FAA 702 order etc.) to MITM. This is a cousin to the Lavabit scenario. Nothing wrong with end-to-end encryption, folks. Why don't we have more of it?

> Nothing wrong with end-to-end encryption, folks. Why don't we have more of it? Complacency and laziness. There is no excuse.

Well said! :)
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