Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

blog.gedrap.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 312 posts

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#221

Post by nsxwolf »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #112
ForHackernews wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hint: Don't live in California. There are plenty of well-paid software jobs in places like Boston, Chicago, Northern Virginia, Atlanta, Florida, Austin, etc. They might not have the glut of "hot" startups that Silicon Valley does, but they have much more reasonable cost of living.

As a software developer with several years in Boston and DC each, I can tell you 100k does not allow for a mortgage on a SFH within a 20 minute commute to work in either place, which is basically the american dream. Boston is even worse, the available real estate is all older and smaller and nearly as expensive as SF. I'd say feature for feature your money probably goes further in SF than in Boston.

You can certainly do this in Chicago. Especially if you're flexible on the commute time and can handle an hour on the train.

The suburbs also have developer jobs.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#222

Post by badman_ting »

pawn wrote: post #187

My dad likes to remind me of how much better my job is than what I could be doing. He's done construction work all of his life, and self-employed construction for as long as I've been alive. Growing up, I often worked for him during the summers after school was out. I've done all manner of construction work under him, concrete work, plumbing, roofing, decks, fences, you name it. He claims now that he had me doing all…

Yeah, that perspective is crucial, I think. When I was a teenager I worked at TJ Maxx for gas money. Retail/customer service type work can be and often is humiliating and somewhat dehumanizing, and of course it pays jack.

I have coworkers who not only didn't do that, they didn't work anywhere else professionally before coming to their jobs at our cushy employer. They're kind of double-screwed: they don't know how sweet this job is vs other jobs doing similar work, and they don't know how much they should be getting paid for it. So they have good jobs, that they bitch about, for which they get paid half or 60% of what they should be getting. (The pay isn't why they bitch, they don't even know they're getting underpaid.)

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#223

Post by lectrick »

dylandrop wrote: post #206
pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

> Yes, it's luxury in many ways. But it's also a coal mine of its own sort. Except you won't die from sitting home in your pajamas. You will, however, be very to die for a multitude of reasons in a coal mine. I'm a programmer. Yes, my brain is engaged constantly. But that's fun to me. It's not like I rue the day I became a programmer and I had to perform the terrible labor of sitting around with friends/acquaintances…

Sedentary jobs have sedentary risks: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/even-with-e...

I own a GeekDesk and swear by it. Standing sometimes while coding makes a difference!

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#224

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

pmichaud wrote: post #179

There are definitely amazing, luxurious aspects of programming. Something came into view for me recently though, that I never realized before: When I graduated from high school, I started my own little (tutoring) company, and did software from after that, so I never had the experience of a "normal", hourly job, like retail or coal mining or whatever. Recently I had an opportunity to do a job like that and the mood st…

"But it's also a coal mine of its own sort."

Go work a physically taxing job for a couple weeks then come back and say that.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#225

Post by nostrademons »

coldtea wrote: post #211
nostrademons wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd encourage you to set up shop as an entrepreneur, consultant, or ISV. Then you will a.) get to keep all of the wealth you create (well, minus taxes - damn you Uncle Sam) and b.) get a true idea of how much wealth you actually create. Personally, I've done both the entrepreneur and employee route, and I created and kept a whole lot more money as an employee. I may go back to being an entrepreneur in the future - I'…

> I'd encourage you to set up shop as an entrepreneur, consultant, or ISV. Then you will a.) get to keep all of the wealth you create (well, minus taxes - damn you Uncle Sam) and b.) get a true idea of how much wealth you actually create. Or you know, you'll get an inflated idea of how much you "actually" created, just because you get to tell people what to do, and belittle their contributions because, after all you…

Usually if you do that too much, they'll leave, your startup will tank, and (in a possibly painful dose of cold reality), you will find out exactly how much you actually created.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#226

Post by seizethecheese »

parennoob wrote: post #213
seizethecheese wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, so you took one job and feel like that is enough of a basis for making conclusions? - Have you tried being a commercial dishwasher? I have. That's 8 straight hours of monotonous, yet highly demanding work attention-wise. $9/hr. - Have you been a line cook? I have. That's 8 straight hours of monotonous, physical work plus a pretty painful burn at least once a day. $10/hr. Okay, fine I take your point that program…

He is a programmer at $100/hr who has to tax his brain a lot in near-total isolation. The aspects of how this is bad for you may be different from those of a dishwasher or a line cook. Some therapists charge more than $100/hr for just listening to people's mental problems for an hour and suggesting new ways of thinking about stuff. But we don't see said therapists telling each other, "Oh, our jobs are so cushy and lu…

> This is replying to an anecdote with yet another anecdote, which I don't think is terribly helpful.

Yes I do think this is illustrative that there are many highly skilled and heavily demanding jobs that make considerably less.

> Programming is monotonous, socially isolating, and probably leads to a higher risk of things like heart disease and diabetes from all the time we spend sitting around.

And how is this unique to programming? Sounds a lot like a call center position I once held. $12 an hour.

Seriously, nobody is arguing that programming isn't grueling, but a little perspective and respect for people who are MUCH worse off seems warranted.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#227

Post by drblast »

zaphar wrote: post #64
aasarava wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the hack that keeps us from constantly taking our luxuries for granted? Just as with the traffic situation, how often do we find ourselves complaining about having to do the laundry or the dishes or vacuuming or even heating up something for dinner -- all fairly small and easy tasks thanks to the help of technology, which took much more time and labor in a previous generation? Yes, it's true that the compl…

Complaining is often a result of comparing our situation to the rest of the environment. When you are sitting in your car in traffic you see that other lane moving faster than you and you get frustrated. When you are at that amazing job you see that other guy two job levels above you with even more perks. If you only surround yourself with an environment where you don't quite measure up then your baseline gets set tw…

Great comment, thanks!

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#228

Post by doktrin »

parennoob wrote: post #213
seizethecheese wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, so you took one job and feel like that is enough of a basis for making conclusions? - Have you tried being a commercial dishwasher? I have. That's 8 straight hours of monotonous, yet highly demanding work attention-wise. $9/hr. - Have you been a line cook? I have. That's 8 straight hours of monotonous, physical work plus a pretty painful burn at least once a day. $10/hr. Okay, fine I take your point that program…

He is a programmer at $100/hr who has to tax his brain a lot in near-total isolation. The aspects of how this is bad for you may be different from those of a dishwasher or a line cook. Some therapists charge more than $100/hr for just listening to people's mental problems for an hour and suggesting new ways of thinking about stuff. But we don't see said therapists telling each other, "Oh, our jobs are so cushy and lu…

> But we don't see said therapists telling each other, "Oh, our jobs are so cushy and luxurious. Try being a line cook!"

First of all : you don't know that.

Second of all : there are rigors to therapy, and every profession, that aren't obvious from the outside. The same holds true for programming.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#229

Post by adamdavis »

parennoob wrote: post #216
dylandrop wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, it's luxury in many ways. But it's also a coal mine of its own sort. Except you won't die from sitting home in your pajamas. You will, however, be very to die for a multitude of reasons in a coal mine. I'm a programmer. Yes, my brain is engaged constantly. But that's fun to me. It's not like I rue the day I became a programmer and I had to perform the terrible labor of sitting around with friends/acquaintances…

> Except you won't die from sitting home in your pajamas. Not sure this is true. Working alone from home in a sedentary job probably raises his risk for diabetes, heart disease, and depression and related diseases; and contributes to an earlier death. I don't have any data as to whether the average life expectancy of a programmer is less than the average life expectancy of a coal miner. Do you?

I don't have any of that data either, but to suggest that the life as a programmer working from home is as dangerous as the life of a career coal miner seems a bit absurd to me.

edit: Certainly no one's making the claim that a sedentary lifestyle doesn't have its own risks - but being a programmer working from home doesn't insist you live a sedentary lifestyle, however, the risks involved with being a coal miner aren't optional.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#230

Post by rbonvall »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #128
edabobojr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to the nurse who lost a patient, the social worker who has to remove a child from their home, a teacher that gets to see all of problems kids bring from homes, many aspects of being a police officer, etc?

Talking to a one time girlfriend who is an obstetrician while she was at work one day she said "better go, I need to deliver this woman's baby". "Hope it goes well", I replied. "It won't" she said, "the baby is already dead". That put every shitty day I've ever had at work in context. Not saying we don't have bad days, we do, just there are some things that thankfully we'll never come face to face with.

My girlfriend is a social worker and works at a primary school. These are some responses I have had to "how was your day":

"Today a girl was raped by his grandfather. We suspect he's also his father."

"A 10-year-old boy commited suicide. I went to his family's home and they still had the body lying down on the living room."

"A boy has told us that her mother every night gets money from men to 'spend time' with her sisters. Today I went to court to try to take the girls away from her, but the judge allowed her to keep them."

I don't allow myself to think I have bad days at work.

Post reply on HN