How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States? • Hacker News Board

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#91

Post by einhverfr » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:48 PM UTC

Hansi wrote: post #10

I fear this will get a lot of "Just say no" comments from people that don't understand that the author is from Pakistan and most likely grew up in a completely different culture than most of us are used to. And it seems like she's not villing/able to cut of contact with her family as I would maybe do if I were in her place, but I'll never be so it's hard to even imagine what I'd do.

Also keep in mind that in most of the world, familial ties are much stronger than in the US.

I am not in the "just say no" category. Instead I am in the "just say yes" category. Then go off, run away, sue for divorce, and then decide what to do. If she can safely return home, do it. If not, then there is the asylum process. Being in the US may provide many more options than being in Pakistan would in this regard.

I say this being conscious that this is a specific situation and the individual involved will have to make the decisions for herself. I also say this as someone who is probably reasonably well known here as reasonably critical of American individualism, but there are times when it can be handy and this might be one.

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#92

Post by wpaladin » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:49 PM UTC

songshu wrote: post #51

geff82 wrote: post #18

Families are MUCH closer in Pakistan and the rest of the Middle East than they are in the western world. Doing things against the families will can get you in big trouble and leave you without your family at all. The main difference between the Middle East and the West is: in the west, you grow up and you are taught by your parents how to stay on your own. That is why Westerners often only see their parents and broth…

Pakistan is not a Middle Eastern country

Pakistan wants to be a Middle Eastern country.

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#93

Post by einhverfr » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:49 PM UTC

songshu wrote: post #51

geff82 wrote: post #18

Families are MUCH closer in Pakistan and the rest of the Middle East than they are in the western world. Doing things against the families will can get you in big trouble and leave you without your family at all. The main difference between the Middle East and the West is: in the west, you grow up and you are taught by your parents how to stay on your own. That is why Westerners often only see their parents and broth…

Pakistan is not a Middle Eastern country

Pakistan is about as Middle Eastern as Iran is.....

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#94

Post by kalleboo » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:50 PM UTC

Fuxy wrote: post #9

yason wrote: post #3

The reason why this was asked is baffling to me. If you don't want to go, then do not go . I assume the AP was an adult. Adults don't need to resort to tricks like trying to get rejected: adults can just reject the invite themselves.

Some people let themselves be force into things. I find it quite sad that they lack the strength to just say no. Edit: Peer pressure is a bitch especially when it's from your own family but don't let yourself be manipulated by it. Edit2: Some people have pointed out that it's not easy and in certain cultures be enough to kill a person. Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you…

> Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you can get away with anything if you say the magic word: "It's my religion/culture".

I don't think anyone here is saying it's acceptable. But maybe there's a easier way than instantly rebelling, losing her funding for living expenses/college, and possibly getting a headhunter after her. Perhaps she can keep up the "denied entry into the US" lie long enough to make it finish college and become more independent, and then have the strength to fight?

Being pragmatic instead of idealistic isn't always wrong. Especially when your future life is on the line.

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#95

Post by einhverfr » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:51 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #66

songshu wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pakistan is not a Middle Eastern country

>The first official use of the term "Middle East" by the United States government was in the 1957 Eisenhower Doctrine, which pertained to the Suez Crisis. Secretary of State John Foster Dulles defined the Middle East as "the area lying between and including Libya on the west and Pakistan on the east, Syria and Iraq on the North and the Arabian peninsula to the south, plus the Sudan and Ethiopia." Pakistan is on the e…

It depends on what you mean though. If you include the Islamic Indo-Iranian states, Pakistan is. If you exclude them, Iran and Afghanistan are not.

Maybe the right answer is "the Middle East is a spherical cow anyway."

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#96

Post by smtddr » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:53 PM UTC

Fuxy wrote: post #54

smtddr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to try to explain this; but words really won't do it justice. I cannot convey the strength of "cultural bonds" with text on a computer screen. As someone from a Nigerian family, we too normally have very strong family bonds. You can't just do whatever you want. The closest thing I could compare it to is kinda of like, all your family is considered immediate-family. In the same way you must balance decisions…

You're probably right i don't understand it. That's a lot of energy and effort put into pleasing people whom can and probably do have ulterior motives just so you can belong to a group. Is that group really wort all that effort? Does belonging to that group get you where you want to go? The answer for me was a resounding no but it could be different for you. There's very few people worth my respect and consideration…

Well, ya know the saying "It takes a village to raise a child.". That same mindset assumes the entire village is the family. So if you grow up in that world, you don't want to disappoint that community.

>>If you're not pissing people off you're doing something wrong.

I definitely try to run my life as opposite from this as reasonably possible. "Reasonably" being the word that's very debatable.

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#97

Post by aestra » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:53 PM UTC

Fuxy wrote: post #22

levosmetalo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only about personal strength, no one is strong enough to change deep cultural heritage and go alone against 1000 year long culture in which woman has no say. From the comments, it's obvious it's a forced marriage and that the OP couldn't do anything about it. It's not about her husbands family, it's also her family that first "sold" or forced her to marry, and then they want her to live with that guy. Who kn…

Why do you assume that? Just because she's from Pakistan? Regardless my culture isn't that rosy either I just choose to reject it and was lucky that my family didn't really care. Regardless if you're life is in danger that's the equivalent of slavery and their not your family anymore their your masters. If you're OK with living that kind of life fine and just give up and go to the US otherwise you need to disappear a…

>Regardless if you're life is in danger that's the equivalent of slavery and their not your family anymore their your masters.

Yes, women were historic (in many places) and currently (in some places) property of men. Why don't you get this?

You even see history of it in the current western marriage ceremony. A father "gives away" her daughter at the alter. This horrible "tradition" represents the exchange of property from father to husband.

Anyways, marriage for love is a recent invention. Previously in time marriage was more of a business transaction.

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#98

Post by aestra » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:57 PM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #87

aestra wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except their marriage is probably a Pakistani one.

Question: Will Pakistan recognize the divorce as long as they were living in the US at the time? My bet would be on yes.

An Islamic marriage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Islam) is between a man and the wali of a woman, who gives her to the husband to be his wife, NOT a contract between the two members of the marriage. A wali is a "guardian" of a women. (or really, owner)

She needs consent from her wali. Pakistan can just say "did your wali sign off on this? Nope? Well that's not a valid divorce."

There's no actual legal recourse for not accepting legal agreements made in other states. Hell, many states in the US don't recognize legal (homosexual) marriages from other states.

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#99

Post by k-mcgrady » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 3:57 PM UTC

Fomite wrote: post #67

k-mcgrady wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume this was many years ago. There aren't any border checks I know of between the North and South or Ireland these days. I take the bus and train to Dublin all the time and drive there quite often and have not seen a checkpoint since the 90's.

The only bus I ever took from Dublin to Belfast and back was boarded by immigration and our papers checked. This was 2006.

That's very strange. According to wikipedia: "There are no longer any operational customs posts along either side of the border."[1] The last check I remember was in the 90's and I don't think it was a customs check, it was a military checkpoint.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland–United_King...

Re: How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

#100

Post by aestra » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 4:00 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #38

Fuxy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume that? Just because she's from Pakistan? Regardless my culture isn't that rosy either I just choose to reject it and was lucky that my family didn't really care. Regardless if you're life is in danger that's the equivalent of slavery and their not your family anymore their your masters. If you're OK with living that kind of life fine and just give up and go to the US otherwise you need to disappear a…

I'm going to try to explain this; but words really won't do it justice. I cannot convey the strength of "cultural bonds" with text on a computer screen. As someone from a Nigerian family, we too normally have very strong family bonds. You can't just do whatever you want. The closest thing I could compare it to is kinda of like, all your family is considered immediate-family. In the same way you must balance decisions…

Thank you for saying this. Seems a lot of people here can't get out of their own cultural viewpoint. This type of disobeying of family (especially from a women) is looked down upon like, say, raping someone is in the US or Europe.