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Density.io

density.io

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Re: Density.io

#151

Post by fennecfoxen »

nickporter wrote: post #141
chrisfarms wrote: post #5

Risky. MAC address tracking is definitely a legal 'grey area' at the moment. I can imagine mining/fingerprinting in this way could easily become illegal in the not-to-distant future. In the UK, City of London already banned the wifi-enabled bins that were tracking MAC addresses. It would be really easy to tie a name to MAC address (from point of purchase with a credit card), then see exactly where that person went vi…

> It would be really easy to tie a name to MAC address (from point of purchase with a credit card). How would you do it?

Well, it's easy from the data point of view. You basically have two data sources: (location, time, credit card) and (location, time, MAC). The location/timestamp history of any given individual is one of the most unique pieces of data you can have; correlating the two is a trivial data-science exercise.

It's the systems-integration part, moving the data from the card swipe onto the right computer, that's actually hard. You might be able to partner with your payment processor to get at that stuff.

Re: Density.io

#152

Post by 13throwaway »

Do devices broadcast their MAC adress when looking for an AP? Do devices encytpt their MAC when they are connected to an AP?

I want a phone that randomizes the MAC every time it connects to an AP.

Re: Density.io

#154

Post by aleem »

chrisfarms wrote: post #5

Risky. MAC address tracking is definitely a legal 'grey area' at the moment. I can imagine mining/fingerprinting in this way could easily become illegal in the not-to-distant future. In the UK, City of London already banned the wifi-enabled bins that were tracking MAC addresses. It would be really easy to tie a name to MAC address (from point of purchase with a credit card), then see exactly where that person went vi…

At first when I saw this page, I thought they count the number of people in a store through an eye-tracking device or facial recognition. This isn't too far off.

In version 3.0 we will be seeing the ability to identify shoppers who are on a shopping spree by ringing a beep as they enter the store. Sad.

Re: Density.io

#155

Post by finnn »

_derko wrote: post #153
finnn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does it say that? And how long until it's not?

https://density.wufoo.com/forms/density-opt-out/

Okay but where was the link to that? I don't see it anywhere on their site.

Re: Density.io

#156

Post by shiftpgdn »

dfc wrote: post #150
shiftpgdn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

City of Houston does MAC address tracking on the freeways and surface streets to power their traffic tracking measures. It's probably used in hundreds of other places you haven't thought about. If you're concerned about your privacy just turn wifi off. http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/layers/

The Houston system uses bluetooth, not 802.11.

Bluetooth uses MAC addresses as well FYI.

Re: Density.io

#157

Post by Karunamon »

parennoob wrote: post #147
Karunamon wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And anyone with a smartphone (or any other reasonably general purpose device with a 802.11 radio) can "understand" (read: pick MAC addresses out of a WiFi ping). This isn't some hidden, elite, arcane black-arts knowledge as you imply, this is standard stuff. The idea that MACs should be somehow private because someone found a novel use for them doesn't even pass the laugh test. IP addresses are not "private". Your fa…

> The idea that MACs should be somehow private because someone found a novel use for them doesn't even pass the laugh test. IP addresses are not "private". Your face out in a public area is not "private" I think you might be misunderstanding the part of this I have a problem with, or perhaps my language wasn't explanatory enough. I have a problem with the company linking back this info to a specific person , not the…

>I think this activity should be regulated and should be an opt-in thing for users.

I think any possible regulatory hurdles that could be imagined will make life for anyone who does anything neat with wifi or some other combination of information miserable. The credit card thing makes me wonder.. like what exactly are they grabbing? Just the fact that a card swipe was recorded at the same time that X wifi radio was in front of the register?

Somehow I'm still not bothered by this. As long as there's no "hidden" information being exposed (say, my CC#), my response is a big fat "meh". Combining different kinds of public information (as in, things that any person could just walk by and see) doesn't somehow combine to become private information.

I mean, let's see what pieces of data we're dealing with here:

    * Entry to the store. Public. Via CCTV, door sensor, etc.
    * Items selected. Public-ish. (Recorded after checkout, some stores use RFID tagging)
    * Location in the store. Public. (Anyone can see.)
    * Time card was swiped. Public. (Anyone in line can see)
    * Basic WiFi information (Mac address, SSID, etc). Public. (Anyone with a smartphone can see.)
Given the fact that all of these pieces of information are freely available, I find it impossible to call for someone's head or feel even vagely "creeped out" by simply combining that info.

Put yet another way, the information's always been there in the open, but now that someone decides to collect it, there's a problem??

Re: Density.io

#159

Post by rlx0x »

plusbryan wrote: post #97

Without wishing to belittle the privacy concerns of my fellow HNers, I wonder how long it will take for people to just be ok with being tracked in this way? This seems like one of those social changes that feels strange and uncomfortable at first, but over time becomes the accepted norm.

It pains me if I see someone describing the slow and gradual installment of the total surveillance world and the loss of any privacy as just something "that feels strange and uncomfortable at first". I for one will never be okay with it! and I know a LOT of people that are against loosing civil liberties too (even if the likes of you don't care!).

Ofcourse I know that my smartphone broadcasts its mac/stored-essids every few seconds, thats why I have wifi disabled most of the time. Most people don't realize that, most people also don't realize the tracking capabilities of cookies. Laws in EU have begun to make it illegal to store cookies without the users consent, because even though its technically possible to block cookies, most people have no idea about that. So I can only hope that it will become one day illegal to violate peoples privacy like that!

Re: Density.io

#160

Post by d23 »

I thought this was a SaaS for dentistry (somehow) and I was going to be excited since it's been a while since I've gone to the dentist.
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