Live data from Hacker News

An Early Retirement

blog.watsi.org

21–30 of 76 posts

Re: An Early Retirement

#21

I'm assuming the company in question is Blue Cross Blue Shield. This kind of sucks, but looking at their logo[0], I would have to agree that they're uncomfortably close, if they are deemed to be in similar enough markets. The only question is whether Watsi and BCBS operate within similar enough markets for their use to be considered infringement - I'm less sure of that. On a related note, this is why early-stage star…

I assumed the same company as you. However, I fall on the other side of the analysis, that Watsi is 1. not interfering with any trademarks registered by BCBS (all BCBS registered marks, which I found in TESS, are word/design marks, which means the blue cross on its own is not protected, it is only protected when it is accompanied by the word mark); and 2. otherwise not causing any confusion in the markplace (for exam…

An additional note, trademark lawyers are often obligated to try and sue people over trademarks, even if they'd rather not, because if they don't zealously defend their trademark, it's considered 'weakened' and that can then become evidence against them in some future case when a different party infringes.

So the blue cross people were doing what they had to do. It sure is funny though how almost every law is interpreted in a way that maximizes future legal work involved.

Re: An Early Retirement

#22
I wonder if a more measured reaction rather than simply caving would have done them better.

They could have had their lawyers draw up a reasoned defense, then used that to wrangle a settlement offer whereby Watsi takes a large-ish donation in return for changing their logo.

Reason being a big battle would hit the larger plaintiff much harder in terms of public opinion. A little brinksmanship could do them a world of good.

Thoughts? Any legal eagles want to weigh in on whether this be a feasible course of action?

Re: An Early Retirement

#23

When you say "invited to a bonfire at Ocean Beach", that doesn't mean you're going to burn a big heap of branded trash on the beach, right? Or am I just being a spoil-sport?

No trash burning, just a little party to send off our blue logo in style :)

Re: An Early Retirement

#24

I'm assuming the company in question is Blue Cross Blue Shield. This kind of sucks, but looking at their logo[0], I would have to agree that they're uncomfortably close, if they are deemed to be in similar enough markets. The only question is whether Watsi and BCBS operate within similar enough markets for their use to be considered infringement - I'm less sure of that. On a related note, this is why early-stage star…

"And don't waste money (as an early startup) on filing for trademark protection - because US trademark law respects common law use (ie, if you used it first, you are protected, even if you didn't file for protection). Registering your trademark does nothing if someone else (with more expensive lawyers) was using it first and can demonstrate that use."

Agree with most of what you are saying.

But with respect to the above paragraph doesn't incorporate the strategy of why you might want to register a trademark even if protected by common law. Some animals are more equal than others.

First, the cost. This can be done without a lawyer by just paying the USPTO fees. So we are talking about $375 (or $325 in the case of certain marks) per category. I've both hired lawyers and I've done this myself as well.

Anyway back to strategy. It gives you a leg to stand on. That's very important in terms of how the other side views you. You have taken the time to register and therefore the other attorneys will give that some thought when they are confering with their client as far as how to proceed. [2] Enough that, in my opinion, and from my experience [1], it is worth the trademark filing fees. (There are attorneys that will do this for $1000 all in by the say if you don't want to diy.)

[1] The leg to stand on principle is something that I have used before several times. In one case I was able to hold off the NCAA (they have big lawyers, right?) and in another case a billion dollar defense contractor. And in lots of small cases. Now this doesn't mean that you will execute as well as I do when doing this but I'd like to point out that it is certainly possible. (My expertise is strategy to the point where I can usually get lawyers that are working for me to agree with my way of doing things that contradicts even with legal precedent.)

[2] Meaning you could potentially extract a pound of flesh or concessions (see NCAA in [1]) just from that leg you lean on.

Re: An Early Retirement

#25
post #16

Wow, this really made my evening :) I just donated two hours worth of my consulting time for two fellow human beings in need somewhere else in the world and it will have serious impact. I'm in total bliss The only thing I would like to see watsi doing is to offer donations with bitcoin! Integration with bitpay is really easy too. If watsi is rails based (seems so) they would have support for bitpay out of the box wit…

Thanks so much for donating! Appreciate the bitpay info -- will look into it.

Re: An Early Retirement

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all BCBS registered marks, which I found in TESS, are word/design marks, which means the blue cross on its own is not protected, it is only protected when it is accompanied by the word mark As I noted in my post, though, marks don't have to be registered in order to be protected. Even if BCBS doesn't have any instances of the blue cross alone registered with the USPTO[0], that doesn't mean that BCBS couldn't still…

>TESS (the USPTO database search) sucks. 100% agree with you. A story I have told a few times on HN was getting a C&D letter for the use of the mark "blood" on a previous product I manufactured, and a basic search on TESS of "blood" will not turn up the registered mark (turns up a lot of other marks that include blood, but not blood by itself) I can only find it searching the registration number. Watsi is being class…

> Watsi is being classy by not even naming the company There is no doubt as to who a multi-billion dollar health insurance company who would take issue with a logo that is literally a blue cross with a triangle cut out of it. I didn't read their post as classy, but rather snarky. I don't have a problem with them calling out BCBS, but I don't think it is at all classy the way they did it. They may have avoided saying BCBS for legal reasons, but that doesn't make it classy.

Re: An Early Retirement

#28
I ordered one not just to stick it to BCBS, but also because it's great knowing all of this is going directly to the patients at Watsi. Well played.

Re: An Early Retirement

#29

When you say "invited to a bonfire at Ocean Beach", that doesn't mean you're going to burn a big heap of branded trash on the beach, right? Or am I just being a spoil-sport?

No trash burning, just a little party to send off our blue logo in style :)

You should burn an effigy of a man as an informal protest against "the man"...you could call him the "burning guy" or something like that..

Re: An Early Retirement

#30
It's a shame. I do think they look somewhat look a like, and there are solid reasons why it would or wouldn't cause confusion in trade.

But if the plaintiff is indeed BCBS, then Watsi would have definitely lost. Since BCBS will probably be regarded as a famous mark, and any similarity would cause an issue for Watsi.

It's unfortunate and sad nonetheless.

Post reply on HN