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Why I stopped being a voluntourist

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Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#151

Post by TeMPOraL »

judk wrote: post #150
TeMPOraL wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main point the article is making, that not all volunteers are providing a net positive, is an interesting one. > "By volunteering I would be causing more harm than good, so the right thing to do is nothing." The right thing to do, as she actually points out in passing in the first part of the article, would be to do what you're good at and send the money to a competent organization. http://lesswrong.com/lw/65/m…

Where do competent organizations get their staff? Who is motivated to pursue the training for that career?

They send/hire professionalists on-site for the money people donate.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#152

Post by judk »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #70
gnerd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is the second largest single country economy on earth and growing. They will be completely covered with healthcare in the next 10 years. They are the largest holders of gold on earth, hold the largest amount of debt from the US. They are developing, but as a nation, they are not poor. > Blaming westernized companies (by which I mean both western companies and local companies like Reliance/Infosys that try to ru…

Westernized might have been the wrong word. Perhaps modern would be better. And yes, both India and the us can (and have) adopt some Japanese business practices as well. And we certainly can learn from India - that's a blog post idea. A bit more emo hipster than what I usually post, but maybe I'll do it anyway.

I hope you learned your lesson about using words to make your point. Next time, try to express yourself in pure telepathy, avoid giving people an opportunity to flame your diction and dismiss your ideas.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#153

Post by ctdonath »

arohann wrote: post #91

Articles and blog posts like this disappoint and annoy me. They lack logic and intellectual depth. I sincerely hope young Americans/westerners don't get discouraged by reading such nonsense. The problem described here is a combination of naivety and misallocation of skills and resources. It has nothing to do with being white and yet this lady can't seem to get away from that. I'm South Asian and I would have faced th…

Thank heavens for those dedicated, young, white voluntarists.

The point is they were not "voluntourists", they really did sacrifice to help your grandmother - as opposed to showing up, getting in the way while doing a few trivial things for a week or so, playing much of the time, and otherwise squandering money which would have been better just sent to the orphanage outright.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#154

Post by ctdonath »

rdtsc wrote: post #36
jrochkind1 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP suggests that their presence is actually detrimental, not just useless. If so, then, yes, it would be better for them just to stay home, even though only a fraction of the money that people would have spent on their own trips will be donated outright. It seems likely to me. It is comfortable and positive to think along the lines of "If even one Westerner gets more engaged, it's a success!" but why would Wester…

> The OP suggests that their presence is actually detrimental, not just useless. Yeah I read that and I don't 100% agree, still mostly agree but maybe just 80%. > "If even one Westerner gets more engaged, it's a success! Not a success but better overall maybe if they just stayed home. > It's not about the Westerners. That is the big problem, and I think I talk about it as well (kind of snarky) how it is an industry t…

Yes, there is a lot of in-between.

There's also a big difference based on which side of the "no effect" zero point you're on. At least be marginally useful; if not, stay home.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#155

Post by SilasX »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #99
auctiontheory wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am certainly less snarky about kids going to do unskilled construction labor. Most middle-class Americans could find a neighborhood within 15-minutes drive that could really use their help. But "my adventures in East Palo Alto" just isn't as exciting on a law school application, or a date, as "tales of Eritrea."

> But "my adventures in East Palo Alto" just isn't as exciting on a law school application You're wrong on that one. Talking about volunteering every weekend in East Palo Alto will get you a lot further on a law school application than your essay on a week in Africa. Admissions staff aren't stupid. Strong commitment to local activism is valued much more than paying large sums of money to travel halfway around the wor…

I'm not sure I understand how the law school would be "stupid" for being indifferent to local vs 3rd-world volunteerism, let alone strongly preferential to the former.

3rd-world volunteerism involves working without any of the amenities you take for granted (e.g. using different toilets), so it's not much of a vacation, and it involves helping people who are a lot worse off materially than "ghetto" kids. Unless law schools started getting nativist recently, of course ...

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#157

Post by TeMPOraL »

aestra wrote: post #137
lemming wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume he means donating to worthy charities rather than actually putting money in people's hands.

Perhaps putting money is people's hands is what is needed? http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/08/23/214210692/the-char...

Still, it is helpful to have someone, whose job is to discriminate between the "special parasitic class of professional beggars and con artists" and people actually in need.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#158

Post by ctdonath »

wcummings wrote: post #126

Yeah, seriously, go to a local food pantry, they'll be glad for the help

Suggestion: Panera Bread gives away (to charity) all the bread they have at the end of each day (their "Dough-Nation" program). Find a food pantry, find out when they're open, tell a Panera store you want to take their leftovers there. Both groups will appreciate you for it, especially if you're reliable: Panera doesn't want to throw hundreds of $$$ of good food away, and the pantry can probably use as much as they can get. Be reliable to both. Just transporting otherwise-discarded food from store A to charity B can make a big difference; takes about an hour a week, easy to do, is a needed activity few know is available.

I'm sure other stores will do something similar.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#159

Post by ctdonath »

gnerd wrote: post #67
kumarski wrote: post #44

The number one way to help people in the 3rd world is find hungry competent entrepreneurs in the country and ask them about their problems.

This sounds like a great approach to the problem but how would one go about finding those people? Were you thinking SME level or street vendor level?

Sounds like step one: solve the meta-problem. Be the one who finds those people, so you can inform others who want to find them.

I appreciate the issue. Having found a source of cubic meters of free fresh bread weekly, finding a charity willing & able to take it proved a significant problem. Just cataloging available/interested charities & entrepreneurs, and advertising the list, would be very helpful.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#160

Post by TulliusCicero »

PakG1 wrote: post #34

I have volunteered regularly to run children's summer English camps in rural China. The point of these camps is mostly to give the kids an opportunity to have fun and learn some English while they're at it, because such nice opportunities simply don't exist where they are. Camp counselors in North America for summer camps don't go through extensive counseling training either. The bar for such volunteer activity is lo…

"I have volunteered regularly to run children's summer English camps in rural China."

Right, so in that case you do actually have a valuable skill that very few, if any locals possess: English fluency. That's quite a bit different from voluntourists that are just contributing unskilled construction labor that any able-bodied local would be able to provide.

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