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Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

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Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#71

Post by ubernostrum »

nickff wrote: post #55
ubernostrum wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only the 1933 Double Eagles that get seized, and only because the government's position is those coins were never legally issued, meaning private possession of one could only have come about via theft from the Mint, which makes the coins stolen government property.

I think the previous poster was referring to executive order 6102 (April 5, 1933), which seized gold within the United States, and criminalized the possession of the specie.[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

The number of exceptions in that order, and the fact that squads of government officials did not go door-to-door looking for unexempted hoards of coins, suggest that perhaps that order had more to do with PR than actual seizures.

Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#72

Post by dools »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #63
jonnathanson wrote: post #61

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's worth noting that $27,000 was a lot of money in 1849. To give a rough estimate, we're talking about the inflation-adjusted equivalent of $750,000 (give or take). Who buries $750,000 in tin cans? Who has $750,000 in unbanked, walking-around money in the first place? The mid-19th century Walter White? Maybe someone cleaning out his bank account in anticipation of a financial apo…

I would start looking at the records for some bank robber who got shot and nobody ever found the money. Stashing your economies inside a house, in a safe, I can understand... but in cans, under a tree? This is the kind of thing someone on a getaway would do. The coins are fresh out of the mint too, so it's likely the entire stash came from one place.

In the article it says they're stashed in chronological order and almost all immediately that they were put into circulation, ruling out a "big heist".

Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#73

Post by WalterBright »

nerfhammer wrote: post #67
MichaelGG wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's so messed up. The Gold Reserve Act, too. It seems extremely "un-American" for the government to force people to sell their gold to the treasury. OTOH, so do a lot of things in hindsight, like the Vietnam draft. (Can you imagine US citizens today being forced to fight overseas?) Was this a common viewpoint when the act went in, or it decades of history since colouring my vision?

It was popular at the time but it was widely assumed that the gold standard would be restored soon. In the months prior a large percentage of country's banks had failed, and immediately beforehand all of the major financial exchanges had frozen, every federal reserve branch and almost every state had suspended banking operations. Withdrawing and hoarding gold were considered to contribute to the destabilization. Here…

The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed, while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914. By 1930, the dollar had inflated by 85% or so, meaning that you could roughly double your money by trading dollars for gold.

This was why there was a giant run on the banks to trade for gold.

Similar sharp corrections happen every time an exchange rate gets fixed by law between two otherwise unrelated specie.

Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#74

Post by nerfhammer »

WalterBright wrote: post #73
nerfhammer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was popular at the time but it was widely assumed that the gold standard would be restored soon. In the months prior a large percentage of country's banks had failed, and immediately beforehand all of the major financial exchanges had frozen, every federal reserve branch and almost every state had suspended banking operations. Withdrawing and hoarding gold were considered to contribute to the destabilization. Here…

The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed, while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914. By 1930, the dollar had inflated by 85% or so, meaning that you could roughly double your money by trading dollars for gold. This was why there was a giant run on the banks to trade for gold. Similar sharp corrections happen every time an exchange rate gets fixed by law between two othe…

> The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed, while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914.

The Federal Reserve's gold reserve requirements and the gold price of the dollar were set by Congress.

> By 1930, the dollar had inflated by 85% or so

This is not the normal meaning of the word inflation. (Nor do I know where your 85% number comes from).

> meaning that you could roughly double your money by trading dollars for gold.

That's not what that means. If that were true then the gold standard would have failed the minute that gold was worth 1% more than its dollar equivalent.

Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#75

Post by WalterBright »

nerfhammer wrote: post #74
WalterBright wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed, while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914. By 1930, the dollar had inflated by 85% or so, meaning that you could roughly double your money by trading dollars for gold. This was why there was a giant run on the banks to trade for gold. Similar sharp corrections happen every time an exchange rate gets fixed by law between two othe…

> The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed, while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914. The Federal Reserve's gold reserve requirements and the gold price of the dollar were set by Congress. > By 1930, the dollar had inflated by 85% or so This is not the normal meaning of the word inflation. (Nor do I know where your 85% number comes from). > meaning that you could rough…

> The Federal Reserve's gold reserve requirements and the gold price of the dollar were set by Congress.

Yes.

> This is not the normal meaning of the word inflation. (Nor do I know where your 85% number comes from).

Perhaps I should have said deflated. Anyhow, it comes from any of the various historical inflation calculators you can find on the internet.

> That's not what that means. If that were true then the gold standard would have failed the minute that gold was worth 1% more than its dollar equivalent.

I too find this surprising, but it happens again and again whenever one currency is artificially pegged to another - nothing happens for years, and then a wrenching correction.

Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#76

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #75
nerfhammer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The trouble was that the exchange rate of dollars for gold was kept fixed, while the Fed had been inflating the currency since 1914. The Federal Reserve's gold reserve requirements and the gold price of the dollar were set by Congress. > By 1930, the dollar had inflated by 85% or so This is not the normal meaning of the word inflation. (Nor do I know where your 85% number comes from). > meaning that you could rough…

> The Federal Reserve's gold reserve requirements and the gold price of the dollar were set by Congress. Yes. > This is not the normal meaning of the word inflation. (Nor do I know where your 85% number comes from). Perhaps I should have said deflated. Anyhow, it comes from any of the various historical inflation calculators you can find on the internet. > That's not what that means. If that were true then the gold s…

Here's one:

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

It's giving me 72.7% 1913-1929.

Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#77

Post by adventured »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #63
jonnathanson wrote: post #61

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's worth noting that $27,000 was a lot of money in 1849. To give a rough estimate, we're talking about the inflation-adjusted equivalent of $750,000 (give or take). Who buries $750,000 in tin cans? Who has $750,000 in unbanked, walking-around money in the first place? The mid-19th century Walter White? Maybe someone cleaning out his bank account in anticipation of a financial apo…

I would start looking at the records for some bank robber who got shot and nobody ever found the money. Stashing your economies inside a house, in a safe, I can understand... but in cans, under a tree? This is the kind of thing someone on a getaway would do. The coins are fresh out of the mint too, so it's likely the entire stash came from one place.

Yes, the fact that nobody ever successfully came back for this is fascinating. They either buried it such that the marker was soon lost and or buried it in a big hurry, never meant for it to be found (in their time) for whatever reason, or died before they could recover it.

Re: Tin cans filled with $10M in gold coins found buried in California

#79

Post by prawn »

jonnathanson wrote: post #61

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's worth noting that $27,000 was a lot of money in 1849. To give a rough estimate, we're talking about the inflation-adjusted equivalent of $750,000 (give or take). Who buries $750,000 in tin cans? Who has $750,000 in unbanked, walking-around money in the first place? The mid-19th century Walter White? Maybe someone cleaning out his bank account in anticipation of a financial apo…

"Who buries $750,000 in tin cans?"

Not quite the same amount, but my grandfather buried around $10k a few decades ago in his backyard. He'd migrated from Europe where he was well-off and lost a large amount of money entrusting money with a lawyer. I think he also had reason not to trust banks, but can't remember specifics.

Fast forward to Australia where, now decidedly working class, he had saved up a new sum and wanted to store it. So he buried it. Years later, before moving house, he went looking and dug over the backyard but couldn't remember where he'd buried the jars of money. Somewhere in suburban Adelaide, there is likely to be a stash of money under dirt.

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