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New message from Mt. Gox

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Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#171

Post by hga »

pjc50 wrote: post #124
ck2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I am naive but I always thought Japan would actually have stricter regulations and penalties for businesses that do this kind of thing, relative to the US.

They might .. but enforcement is hardly automatic and tends to be slow. They might already be investigating.

Exactly. The US has a pretty good, as these things go, food protection regime. But it hardly mattered when Peanut Corporation of America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_Corporation_of_America) set up a factory in Texas and never informed any of the authorities so it could be regulated. (That wasn't the only facility that was rotten, but the one the regulators never had a chance to fail in dealing with.)

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#172

Post by jarek »

marincounty wrote: post #149
ekianjo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's what people say, yet I haven't seen lots of executives in large companies where scandals have occurred suddenly getting randomly killed by hitmen in the streets. And Madoff's still alive, too.

Japan's mafia is differnt than American's mafia. They are technically savvy and might be more ruthless? (Don't ask me how I know--I was even shocked they exist, but even in Marin County I knew a guy who owed them money, and they were the first one he paid back. I have a huge suspicion that The Yakuza is running Mt. Gox? Asians not involved with gambling--what is that called ironic? And no I not racist, but just point…

Is this an HN comments-seeded Markov chain?

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#173

Post by wpietri »

wpietri wrote: post #167
SilasX wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the theory, anyway. Let me know how it actually goes when you get defrauded and see if that super-reliable infrastructure has your back, or if your case is too small for them to care about. "The government provides protections" != I can completely trust my contracts to work because of it".

I didn't say it was super-reliable. Or that I trust my contracts to work. But it certainly has been enough for my needs. Despite a lot of years in business, I've never felt a need for extra-judicial enforcement.

Oops! Editing error. Above I mean "to work perfectly".

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#174

Post by TophWells »

jorisw wrote: post #134
TophWells wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything like that. Here's the page source for me: MtGox.com Dear MtGox Customers, In the event of recent news reports and the potential repercussions on MtGox's operations and the market, a decision was taken to close all transactions for the time being in order to protect the site and our users. We will be closely monitoring the situation and will react accordingly. Best regards, MtGox Team

That's the result DOM source. Try doing a lynx or curl on the site. The entire statement is served through filling a cookie with JavaScript and reloading the site. Or so it was when I posted my earlier comment.

You're right. Firefox's "View Source" button doesn't do what I thought it did. Curl gives a page with a "Please wait" message and a pile of Javascript.

I learned something today.

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#175

Post by fiatjaf »

If Bitcoin were a government currency, all Bitcoin users would have to pay for MtGox losses and every MtGox users would get their money back.

That's the price of anarchism.

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#176

Post by SilasX »

wpietri wrote: post #167
SilasX wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the theory, anyway. Let me know how it actually goes when you get defrauded and see if that super-reliable infrastructure has your back, or if your case is too small for them to care about. "The government provides protections" != I can completely trust my contracts to work because of it".

I didn't say it was super-reliable. Or that I trust my contracts to work. But it certainly has been enough for my needs. Despite a lot of years in business, I've never felt a need for extra-judicial enforcement.

Sorry, I just didn't see anything in your original post that reflect the actual reality of what law enforcement does when you really get defrauded.

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#177

Post by rasz_pl »

biot wrote: post #147

Sometimes it seems like Mt.Gox is a corporation in EVE Online. Like in EVE, they're trading in virtual goods and there's zero regulation. Similarly, scams are part of the game.

Playing EVE Online taught me to spot scams, pyramids and ponzi schemes in an instant. When I first read about bitcoin I couldnt stop laughing, "people really pay for pretend money counting on price going up so they can sell and earn $? AHAHAHA" was all I could hear in my head.

Turns out I was too smart for my own good. Almost every ponzi scheme can be exploited _if_ you get on board early enough.

At the current stage of bitcoin only suckers are left holding the bag. Of course no one will see it, because "Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me)" (its a book, read it).

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#179

Post by lutusp »

rasz_pl wrote: post #177
biot wrote: post #147

Sometimes it seems like Mt.Gox is a corporation in EVE Online. Like in EVE, they're trading in virtual goods and there's zero regulation. Similarly, scams are part of the game.

Playing EVE Online taught me to spot scams, pyramids and ponzi schemes in an instant. When I first read about bitcoin I couldnt stop laughing, "people really pay for pretend money counting on price going up so they can sell and earn $? AHAHAHA" was all I could hear in my head. Turns out I was too smart for my own good. Almost every ponzi scheme can be exploited _if_ you get on board early enough. At the current stage…

> Turns out I was too smart for my own good. Almost every ponzi scheme can be exploited ...

You're misusing the term "Ponzi scheme". A speculative system that relies on volatility and wishful thinking isn't necessarily a Ponzi scheme (might be but not necessarily).

A classic Ponzi scheme has layers or levels that are treated differently. Ordinary speculation about a volatile entity doesn't have this property.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Quote: "Typically, extraordinary returns are promised on the original investment[5] and vague verbal constructions such as "hedge futures trading", "high-yield investment programs", or "offshore investment" might be used. The promoter sells shares to investors by taking advantage of a lack of investor knowledge or competence, or using claims of a proprietary investment strategy which must be kept secret to ensure a competitive edge."

Re: New message from Mt. Gox

#180

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

madaxe_again wrote: post #97
fennecfoxen wrote: post #28

CONSPIRACY THEORY TIME. What if Mt. Gox didn't really lose a post-Panamax boatload of Bitcoin (just a small amount)? They're just manufacturing a panic so they can buy Bitcoins at fire-sale prices, declare "We have all the BitCoin we need after all, we fixed our bug, everything's fiiiine" and maybe even turn a cash profit on the upside?

Or they're fucking up comms as best they can deliberately in order to drive the price down, so they can buy enough btc to "repay" everyone.

THIS. The whole lack of communication, the dead quiet, no explanations attitude. It's so easy to just admit what happened but they're deliberately keeping people in the dark. Giving out only enough information like "we're monitoring the situation and will react accordingly" to let people know they're working on something and prevent themselves from being sued (for now). I don't blame them for doing what they're doing at this point. They're trying to be realistic in their approach to fix it as best as they can. Driving down the price to 100-300, buying up coins and waiting till the whole market goes back up to 800 and selling them to pay off the losses is really all they've got.
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