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Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

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Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#41
post #27
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since conference proceedings are typically ignored researchers generally won't put their best effort into these papers. It's interesting, because this is completely the opposite in many CS fields (e.g. security). The top conferences carry much more weight than any journal. It's probably related to how fast the field changes.

HCI and graphics are other examples: a SIGCHI proceedings paper carries way more weight than a paper in one the HCI journals. And a SIGGRAPH proceedings paper is better than than a paper in something like Journal of Computer Graphics Techniques , although they've recently converted the SIGGRAPH proceedings into a special issue of ACM Transactions on Graphics (which is now more prestigious than other issues of that jo…

One day when I was doing undergrad research, I helped one of my professors move to their new office[1]. He had an entire bookshelf of SIGGRAPH proceedings going back over 20 years.

[1] Before anyone brings up "undergrad research slave labor", I'll have you know I received a copy of "Gödel, Escher, Bach" for my troubles.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#42
"...Labbé, who has built a website where users can test whether papers have been created using SCIgen..."

It's so lucky that he's built a tool to check whether a document is "computer-generated nonsense". God forbid that the publishers have to actually read the papers to check.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#43
post #29
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in CS, but I've heard of this. It's definitely aberrant. Some other fields change just as rapidly so I'd just chalk this up as a cultural difference.

My read on it is that the traditional approach in CS was: 1. Non-peer-reviewed "workshops" or "symposia". Place for position papers, work-in-progress, etc. Typically screened only for basic suitability for the event. In some cases authors may only submit an abstract of their topic, not a full paper. 2. Peer-reviewed but non-archival "conferences". Place to disseminate properly written up recent work in relatively sho…

Replying to self (too late to edit): One other reason it developed this way, I think, is because of the strong industry participation. Industry researchers often are willing to write a short conference paper: Usenix, SIGGRAPH, etc. But they usually (with exceptions) have little interest in writing up a 20-page journal article and going through a heavyweight revise-and-resubmit review process that might take a year. So the good industry research ends up mostly at conferences, and since some of the industry research is very high-profile (e.g. Pixar stuff at SIGGRAPH), it further cements the conferences' reputation as the place top research appears.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#44
post #40
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see that narrative with Springer, but the IEEE is a nonprofit, the main professional society for large areas of computer & electrical engineering. It's not necessarily the best-run nonprofit, but they aren't trying to pump up a stock price or give an ROI to investors or anything. They do need some revenue to pay for their ongoing operations, but in theory they should also be very interested in ensuring that rev…

I sincerely hope you are right. However, as pointed out in other comments, most researchers know what are the good and bad venues in their particular fields. This means that in reality, who is the publisher of a journal or of the proceedings of a conference matters less than the reputation of the conference or journal itself (sadly, that may be less true when it comes to recruitment in academia) which is given by the…

I think that's true within a field, yeah. But outside the really top conferences, stuff as famous as SIGGRAPH, my experience has been that publisher affiliation is given significant heuristic weight, especially when people slightly outside a field are evaluating a conference they aren't personally familiar with (either researchers in other areas, or administrators/deans/etc.). A non-HCI researcher (even another CS researcher) might wonder, is this HCI conference I've never heard of any good? If it's an ACM HCI conference, many people will automatically attribute to it some baseline level of credibility, while if it's a completely independent conference, you start out more in the hole having to justify that this conference is legit. A top conference like SIGGRAPH could probably get away with not being ACM (though the ACM affiliation probably helps with deans/etc.), but more specialized, mid-tier conferences have a harder time going DIY.

I don't think that should always be the decisive factor, just that it's an issue. Last year I was proceedings chair of a conference that I did help move out of ACM, which it had been affiliated with and published with for the previous few years (http://www.fdg2013.org). There were various reasons for it, one being that being ACM-affiliated imposes significant bureaucracy and some financial costs that have to be recouped in registration fees (they're super-paranoid about the event insurance, for example). Another is that the conference is in a field (game studies, game AI, etc.) where we hope non-academics will also read the papers, and being open access would make that a lot easier. Being in the ACM Digital Library doesn't prohibit authors from putting up non-paywalled PDFs on their own sites, but it does prevent there from being an official, centralized open-access proceedings. But I would say we did lose some previous participants as a result of the move. For some people, moving from "an ACM conference, with proceedings archived in the ACM Digital Library" to "an independent conference, with proceedings published by the Society for the Advancement of the Science of Digital Games" is a deal-breaker: they see it as a drop off in prestige, from something they can list on their CV and use for their tenure case to something they can't. This varies completely based on university and field, of course, but a number of people told us losing the ACM publication was a big deal for them, and would lead them to publish elsewhere. One researcher from Brazil even said that his travel funding depends on the conference being sponsored by a major professional organization (IEEE/AAAI/ACM/etc.), so if we went independent he wouldn't be able to come anymore. I still think it was the right move on balance, but I can see the situations some of these people are in as well.

There's also a little bit of an archival question. The ACM DL will probably still exist in some form in 50 years. Will an independent conference's archive still exist in 50 years? To tackle that question we're investigating being archived by a new open-access archival initiative from the University of California (http://escholarship.org). There's a possibility this may also mollify some of the people upset about losing the "ACM" publisher line, since they could instead list a "University of California" publisher line, which is also a well-known institution. Another conference I've published in has taken that strategy, with the University of Michigan (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/i/icmc/). I think this might be an attractive way for conferences to keep the institutionally-archived cred while getting out of the paywall mess. However it does require these archives to then do some decent vetting so they don't archive fake conferences and lose their credibility.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#45
post #41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HCI and graphics are other examples: a SIGCHI proceedings paper carries way more weight than a paper in one the HCI journals. And a SIGGRAPH proceedings paper is better than than a paper in something like Journal of Computer Graphics Techniques , although they've recently converted the SIGGRAPH proceedings into a special issue of ACM Transactions on Graphics (which is now more prestigious than other issues of that jo…

One day when I was doing undergrad research, I helped one of my professors move to their new office[1]. He had an entire bookshelf of SIGGRAPH proceedings going back over 20 years. [1] Before anyone brings up "undergrad research slave labor", I'll have you know I received a copy of "Gödel, Escher, Bach" for my troubles.

I was a paid undergrad security researcher that made double that any of other on-campus student job, where labor was cheap and abundant.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#46
post #43
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My read on it is that the traditional approach in CS was: 1. Non-peer-reviewed "workshops" or "symposia". Place for position papers, work-in-progress, etc. Typically screened only for basic suitability for the event. In some cases authors may only submit an abstract of their topic, not a full paper. 2. Peer-reviewed but non-archival "conferences". Place to disseminate properly written up recent work in relatively sho…

Replying to self (too late to edit): One other reason it developed this way, I think, is because of the strong industry participation. Industry researchers often are willing to write a short conference paper: Usenix, SIGGRAPH, etc. But they usually (with exceptions) have little interest in writing up a 20-page journal article and going through a heavyweight revise-and-resubmit review process that might take a year. S…

Yeap. Industry has to ship something useful.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#47
post #44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sincerely hope you are right. However, as pointed out in other comments, most researchers know what are the good and bad venues in their particular fields. This means that in reality, who is the publisher of a journal or of the proceedings of a conference matters less than the reputation of the conference or journal itself (sadly, that may be less true when it comes to recruitment in academia) which is given by the…

I think that's true within a field, yeah. But outside the really top conferences, stuff as famous as SIGGRAPH, my experience has been that publisher affiliation is given significant heuristic weight, especially when people slightly outside a field are evaluating a conference they aren't personally familiar with (either researchers in other areas, or administrators/deans/etc.). A non-HCI researcher (even another CS re…

Thanks for your detailed response. I knew that ACM and other were a factor in many heuristics for evaluating conferences, but I had no idea to which extent! This is really sad…

Congrats for your move to open access with FDG :-).

It's really sad that putting the papers on arXiv + hosting a web page on the conference website saying "these versions of these papers have been accepted at this conference after peer-reviewing etc." is not sufficient. There is a real problem here, because clearly the quality of the results would be exactly the same as behind a paywall hosted by the ACM.

Thanks for the pointer to eScholarship too.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#48
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great work. I'm curious about your motivations. Do you consider it a validation of your work that so many papers were published?

At the time, there was an arms race within the systems community to see who could flip a bigger bird to the organizers of the SCI spamference. David Mazieres and Eddie Kohler started it off when they submitted "Get Me Off Your Fucking Mailing List" [1] for publication. We wanted to one-up them and figured we could do so by submitting a random paper that might be accepted into the conference, allowing us to give an in…

That link is priceless. What does it remind me of? I have a half-memory of a fake scientific paper full of nonsense words and incomprehensible diagrams that was very amusing. It was a bit like this: http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9581/waltz19pq.jpg

Anyone know what I'm on about?

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#49
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great work. I'm curious about your motivations. Do you consider it a validation of your work that so many papers were published?

At the time, there was an arms race within the systems community to see who could flip a bigger bird to the organizers of the SCI spamference. David Mazieres and Eddie Kohler started it off when they submitted "Get Me Off Your Fucking Mailing List" [1] for publication. We wanted to one-up them and figured we could do so by submitting a random paper that might be accepted into the conference, allowing us to give an in…

It wasn't really funny until I saw the first figure, then I died laughing.

Re: Publishers withdraw more than 120 gibberish papers

#50
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the time, there was an arms race within the systems community to see who could flip a bigger bird to the organizers of the SCI spamference. David Mazieres and Eddie Kohler started it off when they submitted "Get Me Off Your Fucking Mailing List" [1] for publication. We wanted to one-up them and figured we could do so by submitting a random paper that might be accepted into the conference, allowing us to give an in…

That link is priceless. What does it remind me of? I have a half-memory of a fake scientific paper full of nonsense words and incomprehensible diagrams that was very amusing. It was a bit like this: http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9581/waltz19pq.jpg Anyone know what I'm on about?

Not the chicken paper?

http://isotropic.org/papers/chicken.pdf

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