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Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

nytimes.com

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Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#41

Post by tempestn »

naterator wrote: post #39
blueskin_ wrote: post #37

Saw this coming a mile off. I hope the people who lost bitcoin learn not to keep them anywhere but in their own wallets.

I came late to the Bitcoin party, so when I started mining other coins mid-last year the first thing I did was download the wallet client and encrypt, and backed it up. And I still didn't fully trust that my coins were safe, and that there wasn't some other bug in the protocol that could result in my coins getting stolen somehow (or at least confusion arising as to who owns them). I don't understand how people put so…

I think people (perhaps rationally) believe that the people running the exchanges know more about keeping bitcoins secure than they themselves do. The analogy would be that you're a lot safer putting your money in a bank than trying to keep it safe in your house. And certainly a company whose entire business is trading in bitcoin should know how to keep them safe. Unfortunately the reality is obviously sometimes different.

Certainly you can keep your own coins essentially 100% safe relatively easily with encryption and backups, but most people wouldn't even think to try, let alone have the necessary knowledge to do so.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#42

Post by Crito »

kapkapkap wrote: post #28
buro9 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be knowledgeable about bitcoin specifically to know what happens, at the last financial crisis we got the same lesson. Value is perceived, and value can evaporate. If bitcoin completely fails, the value evaporates. It's a bit like buying a house in Detroit a decade ago for a hefty price, and trying to sell it today. Your money wasn't eaten by the house, no-one ran away with it, but it's now worth si…

No. Its a closed system. For every dollar that someone spent on a bitcoin, that dollar was received by someone else. Now, you can certainly say that the money was spent on things like electricity, or GPU hardware, that has little/no value now. But thats irrelevant - the money most certainly spent, rather than "evaporate" into thin air.

Just because I can buy a bitcoin from somebody for $1000 a few months ago doesn't mean that same person is willing to buy it back from me for $1000 dollars today. The value in that bitcoin has evaporated, disappeared, gone up in smoke. Bitcoins are only worth how much people are willing to pay for them; what was spent on them in the past does not convey to them any value today.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#43

Post by buro9 »

nerfhammer wrote: post #33
buro9 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be knowledgeable about bitcoin specifically to know what happens, at the last financial crisis we got the same lesson. Value is perceived, and value can evaporate. If bitcoin completely fails, the value evaporates. It's a bit like buying a house in Detroit a decade ago for a hefty price, and trying to sell it today. Your money wasn't eaten by the house, no-one ran away with it, but it's now worth si…

The money was stolen, not a market downturn

So you read the comment mine is in response to asking about a different hypothetical event?

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#44

Post by sorenbs »

How traceable are bitcoins. Suppose Gox released their logs, would it be possible to track when someone tried to offload the stolen bitcoins on one of the major exchanges?

given the alleged value of the stolen coins are in the range of 0.5B USD it's not unreasonable to suspect that some government capacity would investigate this.

If the stolen coins can indeed be detected - how would they go about extracting the value? Seems like a large scale, risky money laundry effort would be needed.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#45

Post by wila »

The most interesting part in that text for me was "Released in 2009 by an anonymous creator known as Satoshi Nakamoto"

It was news to me that the creator of the bitcoin technology is anonymous. Heard the name several times before, but never knew it was a pseudonym for an anonymous person or group of persons.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#46

Post by hcal »

eru wrote: post #32
tdg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be nitpicking but a common criticism of China is that they manipulate their currency to _increase_ the value of dollar not devalue it.

Yes, the Chinese are hard at work to give Americans ever more manufactured goods for ever fewer green pieces of paper. (Or to be more accurately, entries in a data base.)

I'm just an armchair economist, but I have read real economist argue that a strong US dollar limits the US's ability to repatriate it's manufacturing base. Also, I don't think China so much increases the dollar as it limits the growth of the Yuan in measure with technological and capital improvements that allow it to keep its export market strong and keep manufacturing business in China.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#47

Post by bostonpete »

chm wrote: post #7

This is a really sad moment but let's hope it teaches everybody lessons. One very nice thing about cryptocurrencies is that they can be kept safe in cold storage without too much trouble. Some people kept all their coins there. It's a shame, but too bad. Otherwise, I really hope Gox dies, in a darwinian business sense. Forest fires destroy big trees but makes way for new shoots.

I thought big trees generally fared the best in forest fires...

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#48

Post by sneak »

chm wrote: post #7

This is a really sad moment but let's hope it teaches everybody lessons. One very nice thing about cryptocurrencies is that they can be kept safe in cold storage without too much trouble. Some people kept all their coins there. It's a shame, but too bad. Otherwise, I really hope Gox dies, in a darwinian business sense. Forest fires destroy big trees but makes way for new shoots.

Yeah, lessons are what people need.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yv26o/gox_horror_s...

"But too bad."

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#49

Post by bostonpete »

jbb555 wrote: post #38

I'm just hoping I can get home after work and buy some coins at the price the are now before it goes up again. I feel that this is mostly already discounted in the price, everyone was expecting it. It may drop further but it's not going to last. I should add that I only plan to spend perhaps 1% of my money available for saving/investing in bitcoin. I think it's a good investment but the risk is too high to risk more.

1% doesn't seem like "good investment" money. Sounds more like a long shot investment...

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#50

Post by calhoun137 »

bostonpete wrote: post #49
jbb555 wrote: post #38

I'm just hoping I can get home after work and buy some coins at the price the are now before it goes up again. I feel that this is mostly already discounted in the price, everyone was expecting it. It may drop further but it's not going to last. I should add that I only plan to spend perhaps 1% of my money available for saving/investing in bitcoin. I think it's a good investment but the risk is too high to risk more.

1% doesn't seem like "good investment" money. Sounds more like a long shot investment...

false. that depends on the size of the bankroll.
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