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Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

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Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#71
post #29

Check out the recent update to this YouTube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1YsMlrfF0 Apparently liquidity problems and solvency problems are different problems, who knew.

This Youtube video was recorded and published on July 17th, 2013. It does NOT pertain to recent events.

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#73

I'm kind of in the dark about Mt.Gox, is their recent downfall just the fault of inexperience when dealing with complex code and Bitcoin or did the team at Mt.Gox actually act with malice, attempting to steal money from people? Is Mt.Gox just a startup made of 2 brothers and a fullstack engineer that happened to hit it big and muck up brilliantly when they scaled? Part of me feels really sad (granted I don't particip…

They failed to set up a proper testing pipeline. They failed to fix known issues with their BitCoin implementation after months. This would have been much easier had they actually built up their organization with all the profits they were seeing. As CEO Karpeles should not be touching code - he should be managing what was a large and growing company and building up a competent organization so that it could adequately manage a quickly growing amount of other people's wealth. But judging by the fact that Karpeles has still been coding himself, Gox did not build up its organization at all.

It seems like he probably wanted his overhead to stay low and avoid paying people who were better than he was to fix the rather significant problems with their BitCoin implementation. Which means this isn't just a tale of incompetence it's a tale of greed.

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#74

Not a great day to be a Libertarian. When their domain goes up for sale, I'm going to buy it and start an online exchange for Magic cards.

So in the current EU/US political climate, MtGox would be bailed out, meaning people who didn't invest their money with MtGox would be forced to make the people who did whole. Whereas in the current BitCoin climate, the investors suffer and will be forced to sue MtGox to reclaim their money.

Which is morally better?

No libertarian will tell you that either of these is a preferred outcome, but out of the two, the morally superior one should be relatively obvious.

Edit: The reason I say it would be bailed out is not because they are investment accounts but precisely because it was so huge in the BitCoin economy.

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#75
post #74

Not a great day to be a Libertarian. When their domain goes up for sale, I'm going to buy it and start an online exchange for Magic cards.

So in the current EU/US political climate, MtGox would be bailed out, meaning people who didn't invest their money with MtGox would be forced to make the people who did whole. Whereas in the current BitCoin climate, the investors suffer and will be forced to sue MtGox to reclaim their money. Which is morally better? No libertarian will tell you that either of these is a preferred outcome, but out of the two, the mora…

Checking accounts, savings accounts, and CD are protected by FDIC. Brokerage accounts for doing FX speculation are not insured. [1] http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/information/fdiciorn....

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#76
post #74

Not a great day to be a Libertarian. When their domain goes up for sale, I'm going to buy it and start an online exchange for Magic cards.

So in the current EU/US political climate, MtGox would be bailed out, meaning people who didn't invest their money with MtGox would be forced to make the people who did whole. Whereas in the current BitCoin climate, the investors suffer and will be forced to sue MtGox to reclaim their money. Which is morally better? No libertarian will tell you that either of these is a preferred outcome, but out of the two, the mora…

MtGox is an exchange, not a bank. I'm mentioning this because there is an important third person with a bank: the customer, not the investor.

With mtgox, every customer is an investor. When bailing out a bank, however, the rationale is often to help out the people who cannot be blamed: the customers.

I'm still not claiming that bailing out I banks is a good thing, but the comparison you make is a small apples/oranges thing.

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#77
post #69

About 6 months ago (when Mt Gox had some other issues with people's money) I said: > If you trusted a company that started out trading Magic: the Gathering cards with a significant amount of your money, you probably need the lesson you are going to learn from this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6264666 And was mocked/dismissed. It's disheartening to me the blind spot that otherwise intelligent people have when…

I pulled my money out of MtGox about 6 months ago... unfortunately I'm still waiting for them to process the wire transfer I requested, and this makes me suspect I may never actually see that money.

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#78
post #58
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming for the moment that they are doing that - is it really criminal activity? I understand that it would be in regulated markets, but Bitcoin isn't regulated.

It doesn't matter what they deal with. MtGox is a financial services provider registered with the Japanese FSA that transmits money in multiple "recognised" currencies (AUD CAD CHF CNY DKK EUR GBP HKD JPY NOK NZD PLN RUB SEK SGD THB USD). They are subject to Japanese law and International law. And also to US and EU law regarding AML/KYC of their citizens. Bitcoin might not be regulated in most places to different deg…

>>They are subject to Japanese law and International law. And also to US and EU law regarding AML/KYC of their citizens.

Is there any legal precedent for this? What would you sue Mt.Gox for? Do they have contracts or some form of binding agreement with people who store their BTC with them?

I'm not sure they're really bound by any laws in regards to currency. Maybe contractually, but beyond that, not sure what you could sue them for without some real concrete evidence of criminal activity.

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#79
post #58
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming for the moment that they are doing that - is it really criminal activity? I understand that it would be in regulated markets, but Bitcoin isn't regulated.

It doesn't matter what they deal with. MtGox is a financial services provider registered with the Japanese FSA that transmits money in multiple "recognised" currencies (AUD CAD CHF CNY DKK EUR GBP HKD JPY NOK NZD PLN RUB SEK SGD THB USD). They are subject to Japanese law and International law. And also to US and EU law regarding AML/KYC of their citizens. Bitcoin might not be regulated in most places to different deg…

MtGox isn't exactly FDIC(or whatever Japan's equiv) insured. What are you going to sue for? Who told you it was okay to buy these digital coins? I love Bitcoin, but I'm not denying the fact that it's essentially gambling[1] and I accept full personal responsibility for losing my own funds. Trusting any of these unregulated exchanges is part of the gamble. If the law did try to say MtGox has liability, I wonder how that'd effect the other exchanges out there.

The only thing anyone can do right now is pray - http://i.imgur.com/nTFj3zs.png

1. Actually, it's worse than gambling since I don't think "legit" Casinos can legally just disappear over night causing you to lose funds that you haven't even gambled with yet. There is absolutely zero protection in the wild-west of bitcoin right now.

Re: Mt.Gox's tweets are all gone

#80
post #73

I'm kind of in the dark about Mt.Gox, is their recent downfall just the fault of inexperience when dealing with complex code and Bitcoin or did the team at Mt.Gox actually act with malice, attempting to steal money from people? Is Mt.Gox just a startup made of 2 brothers and a fullstack engineer that happened to hit it big and muck up brilliantly when they scaled? Part of me feels really sad (granted I don't particip…

They failed to set up a proper testing pipeline. They failed to fix known issues with their BitCoin implementation after months. This would have been much easier had they actually built up their organization with all the profits they were seeing. As CEO Karpeles should not be touching code - he should be managing what was a large and growing company and building up a competent organization so that it could adequately…

Who knows when Mt Gox failed to be solvent? It could have been a really long time ago. A ponzi scheme can go on indefinitely as long as deposits exceed withdrawals. It seems that the BTC "bug" shook things up, and much like any financial crises they were suddenly exposed.
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