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Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

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Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#1
Starting in May, the hardware startup I work for has been having some money problems. They've deferred payroll a couple times, including the most recent pay period.

A couple days after the last missed payroll, I indicated I would be working from home but not in a full time manner. Since then, everyone else appears to continue going into the office and working full days even though they have not been paid. Am I wrong in my actions?

The most upsetting part for me is that on payday, no one in management mentioned we would not be getting paychecks. It seemed like they figured we wouldn't mind/notice and we would just continue working.

I have updated my resume, but have not sent it out yet. They keep saying money is right around the corner and I'd like for that to be true. So I've basically been waiting that out while keeping my eyes open for opportunities (which are sparse).

Does anyone who has been through this before have any advice? Or how would you have handled it if you could go back and do it again?

EDIT: Thank you all for your insightful comments.

After hearing how often this thing doesn't turn itself around, I am going to start sending my resume out immediately. I guess I just needed a community kick in the ass to get me going!

Re: Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#3
You should have started sending out your resume when they missed payroll back in May. Not only does this place have some serious financial problems, but management doesn't even have the decency to let people know ahead of time. That's pretty sleazy in my book. Even if you could rationalize giving the place a free pass on a missed payroll there's no excuse for them not even mentioning it.

Don't fall for the line about the money right around the corner. You'll be hearing that from now until the time you leave the company in debt up to your eyeballs because you've been living off credit cards instead of the paychecks you should be getting.

I know people who have been in this situation before and none of them had any stories about how the company turned the corner. It turned uglier instead. More missed payrolls- sometimes for a month at a time. Stress. Thousands of dollars of debt due to living off credit cards. Showing up to a locked office one day without any notice. Working the last month sitting on a crate in the owner's living room because the money is still right around the corner. Protests on the owner's front lawn. In the end if you'll be damn lucky if you leave with some office furniture or a laptop. Forget about money.

You should be out finding a new job ASAP. Any job. This is worse than being unemployed. You're off working the day at an office and not getting paid for it. At least when you're unemployed you've got some time on your hands to do something more productive than doing free work for some greedy asshole. You could very well show up to work tomorrow only to be laid off. Or even worse- the door could be locked.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#4
I worked for a small startup and had that problem several times. It was never a long enough amount of time that I really questioned whether or not I would get paid, but it did annoy me and the way the owner handled it made a very 'awkward' work environment. He generally gave an explanation as to why it was our fault, and why we shouldn't question him. Eventually I just left. He was very upset when I quit. He felt that I really owed him something just because he had hired me.

So what did I learn? He was a jerk anyway, and it wasn't worth working for him. Fortunately, the economic climate was more forgiving 4 years ago when that happened, and after working in landscaping for 2 weeks, I got a great job that I loved.

If you're really that concerned, go ahead and look elsewhere. If you get some pretty solid connections, go ahead and present your concern to your manager. Depending on his reaction, I don't think you need to feel like you're letting the company down by leaving. If they can't pay you when they said, they at least owe you a very good explanation.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#5
post #2

Been there before. Best get out as soon as possible.

Likewise here. If the company had any prospects of funding, they would be more open. Get your resume out now. There is no harm in working for a while longer, so long as it doesn't interfere with your job search. Also check with you state employment office, because you probably have wage claims which may go ahead of other creditors. (IANAL)

EDIT: Your coworkers are still working because they dont know what else to do. They are going through the motions on hope.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#6
"What to do when your company misses payroll?"

1. Invent a time machine.

2. Go back 30 days.

3. Run, don't walk, the other way as fast as you can. This won't end pretty.

Steps 1 & 2 are desirable, but optional. Step 3 is required.

(I'm not using the time machine to be cute or funny, but to make a point. This problem didn't just happen when you found out about it. They knew long before you and did little or nothing to help you. Shame on them.)

Re: Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#7
There's a lot of good advice here telling the employee how to act. I concur with most of it.

Let me add something from another perspective:

Speaking as a startup owner who has had money problems from time to time:

a) crap happens

b) your hourly people, who have no equity, deserve every single cent. Whether answering phones, stuffing boxes, or whatever, these people work hard, and you MUST pay them every penny, on the day it's due.

c) Folks who have equity, and will see some upside in good times, can be asked (ASKED, not TOLD) if they are willing to make sacrifices for the success of the team. Ask them ahead of time - preferably well ahead of time.

d) When a startup has successes, it's because of your people. When a startup has problems, it's because of leadership. Get out your spoon and start eating shit ^H^H^H humble pie. Tell your people that screw ups happened, and - because the buck stops with you - YOU are the cause. Apologize to your people.

e) LEADERS LEAD FROM THE FRONT.

The last point is the most important. Before an owner asks anyone to take even a temporary pay cut, he should cut his own pay to the bone. Before he misses a payroll for other people, he should have already skipped a paycheck or two.

Startups come and go, but 50 years from now, your reputation, and your sense of self will still be with you. Make sure that you are scrupulously ethical with your people.

Travis J I Corcoran, President SmartFlix

Re: Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#9
I have been in your situation. My advice is to get out before the company goes under and forces you to compete with everyone else you work with for jobs.

Even though your company has not been very stand-up with you, don't burn any bridges. You never know when that kind of stuff will come back to bite you in the ass.

Re: Ask HN: What to do when your company misses payroll?

#10
post #3

You should have started sending out your resume when they missed payroll back in May. Not only does this place have some serious financial problems, but management doesn't even have the decency to let people know ahead of time. That's pretty sleazy in my book. Even if you could rationalize giving the place a free pass on a missed payroll there's no excuse for them not even mentioning it. Don't fall for the line about…

jm4 makes a good point. Get any personal items out of your office ASAP. Do it slowly and quietly, do it after hours if possible.

Just prepare for the possibility that one morning the doors may be locked when you show up.

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