Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected • Hacker News Board

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#81

Post by SwellJoe » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:34 PM UTC

surement wrote: post #77

hershel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, there are ways to prevent some of the harms of marijuana: Using e-cigarettes and using marijuana strains who mostly contain CBD(which generally has positive effects) and little THC(which creates feelings of paranoia and might have mental health risks) , so there are possible regulatory means to reduce lots of the risks without reducing tax revenue.

How can you know which strains contain more cannabidiol?

Higher end strains, as found in dispensaries, are often bred for the desired balance of components, so you can just ask your vendor at the counter.

I don't know how well-tested these strains are (aside from, "puff... yeah, man, that's awesome"), but there has always been a desire in the medical marijuana market for selection based on this data which I'm sure carries over, so I suspect that now that it is legal in a couple of places, we'll begin to see Consumer Reports style testing. Hell, maybe even the Consumers Union, themselves, will get on the case.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#82

Post by carbocation » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:34 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #58

nerfhammer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deleterious health effects of cigarette smoke is the burning plant matter and not the nicotine, so it wouldn't be surprising if marijuana were in the same ball park of dangerousness. Related is the danger of smoke from ordinary wood fire, see: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-fireplace-delusion

>The deleterious health effects of cigarette smoke is the burning plant matter... I don't think you can say that at all. Of course burning plant matter produces carcinogens, but studies of marijuana smokers haven't found any conclusive evidence of greatly increased cancer risk. There have been some studies that show that smoking tobacco and marijuana together increases cancer risk beyond that of tobacco alone. Smokel…

> studies of marijuana smokers haven't found any conclusive evidence of greatly increased cancer risk

There is epidemiological evidence that marijuana smoking is associated with lung cancer. "Greatly" is subjective so I can't really comment on that.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#83

Post by catshirt » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:37 PM UTC

just2n wrote: post #44

I wonder if there is any (increased) consideration for stronger laws against smoking in public areas. Particularly on high traffic sidewalks. Cigarette smoke is bad enough (and should also be banned in such areas), but Marijuana smoke is far more pungent. It's bad enough we have to deal with exhaust from cars that are clearly illegal (emissions wise), why is it OK to spray toxic fumes all over a sidewalk with a smell…

are you seriously proposing making something illegal because you don't like how it smells?

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#84

Post by haldujai » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:39 PM UTC

rch wrote: post #72

kristofferR wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to CNN: $40 million to public school construction $86 million for drug prevension, treatment $12,4 million on public health $3 million for law enforcement and public safety $2 million for marijuana industry oversight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT6YYkFK4e0&t=2m0s

Everything other than the education component seems inherently wasteful to me. Is there a way to see that these funds are reallocated going forward? Edit: public health could be alright, but there's no way to tell at this level of specification. It would be great to see some improvement in mental health services, for instance.

Seriously? Without even knowing the details you are able to conclude this is wasteful? In what universe is addiction treatment and police wasteful? I get that not all police are good and corruption exists but try living in a place without a functioning police force and then call it a waste.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#85

Post by Stratoscope » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:42 PM UTC

hershel wrote: post #17

gopalv wrote: post #2

Ugh, is this going to look like Big Tobacco in 50 years? Vice taxes and revenue streams to be kept alive for the district? That's going to be such a kick-in-the-backside for everyone who just wanted to decriminalize it & stop putting people away for years.

Technically, there are ways to prevent some of the harms of marijuana: Using e-cigarettes and using marijuana strains who mostly contain CBD(which generally has positive effects) and little THC(which creates feelings of paranoia and might have mental health risks) , so there are possible regulatory means to reduce lots of the risks without reducing tax revenue.

You don't need the heavy hand of government for that. The market is taking care of it quite nicely. You can buy a variety of vaporizers on Amazon, and if you visit some dispensaries in California you'll find a few strains that are bred and tested to be rich in CBD and low in THC. I'm sure the same can be found in Washington and Colorado and other states with legal cannabis, medical or otherwise.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#86

Post by alexeisadeski3 » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:47 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #78

So let's do some back of the envelope math Colorado: 5,268,367 people (2013 est.) Pot Tax Revenues: $98 million That's $18.60 per person. Assuming demand is constant across the U.S. (which is probably not true, but let's go with it) U.S. population: 317,580,230 (current est.) That's $5,906,992,278 in tax revenues for the entire country. 2014 is expected to be even bigger. So what could the nation do with $6 billion+…

How about just giving the money back to taxpayers?

Nah, they'll probably just waste it.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#87

Post by just2n » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:51 PM UTC

catshirt wrote: post #83

just2n wrote: post #44

I wonder if there is any (increased) consideration for stronger laws against smoking in public areas. Particularly on high traffic sidewalks. Cigarette smoke is bad enough (and should also be banned in such areas), but Marijuana smoke is far more pungent. It's bad enough we have to deal with exhaust from cars that are clearly illegal (emissions wise), why is it OK to spray toxic fumes all over a sidewalk with a smell…

are you seriously proposing making something illegal because you don't like how it smells?

That's clearly what I have proposed. Let's ignore the decades of research that clearly indicates that smoke produced from burning any form of cigarette is carcinogenic and triggers allergy symptoms and complications caused by chronic illnesses like Athsma in others.

It takes a certain level of inconsideration to sit there and cause other people to breathe smoke. How much would it impact someone, say yourself, to kill someone by inducing an Athsma attack on your lunch break?

Further, it's already the case that laws exist to make certain behaviors illegal for the very reason that they inconvenience other people, not because they cause harm. That includes being excessively noisy and producing foul odors in some cases, among many other things.

What I've learned today is that there are a lot of inconsiderate assholes on Hacker News. Be it out of general apathy of others or just sheer stupidity. I'd have argued the latter could not have been the case many months ago, but given the recent discussions and new posters, it seems to be a contender. Perhaps then, it is vogue to "care about others" when it's convenient (for instance, when it makes you look good or benefits you), but otherwise fuck other people, because "what I want to do is more important than your entire life".

And here I thought this wasn't /., reddit, or 4chan. Wrong.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#88

Post by Stratoscope » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:55 PM UTC

surement wrote: post #77

hershel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, there are ways to prevent some of the harms of marijuana: Using e-cigarettes and using marijuana strains who mostly contain CBD(which generally has positive effects) and little THC(which creates feelings of paranoia and might have mental health risks) , so there are possible regulatory means to reduce lots of the risks without reducing tax revenue.

How can you know which strains contain more cannabidiol?

Many of the California dispensaries publish the test results for CBD and THC. Or you can go by the strain: ones to look for include Harlequin and Cannatonic.

As an example, the website for Harborside Health Center currently lists three Harlequin varieties with CBD/THC of 5.2%/6.7%, 5.8%/5.6%, and 8.4%/6.9%. These THC levels are well below the other strains that run 15-25% THC.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#89

Post by rdl » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:59 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #78

So let's do some back of the envelope math Colorado: 5,268,367 people (2013 est.) Pot Tax Revenues: $98 million That's $18.60 per person. Assuming demand is constant across the U.S. (which is probably not true, but let's go with it) U.S. population: 317,580,230 (current est.) That's $5,906,992,278 in tax revenues for the entire country. 2014 is expected to be even bigger. So what could the nation do with $6 billion+…

Much bigger than the direct costs of arresting/prosecuting/imprisoning people is the economic loss they represent -- assuming those people could do something productive, they'd be contributing a lot more to society than they cost to lock up today. On top of the costs of locking them up. And, the competent people currently working in law enforcement who could be doing other things. And the deadweight losses, etc. from people (rightly, in many communities) being distrustful of law enforcement and the government.

Ending the drug war would be a positive of around the same order of magnitude that the War on Terror has been a negative; hundreds of billions per year on an open-ended basis.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#90

Post by alexeisadeski3 » Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 10:59 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #80

cdash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you will find too much argument from people that want it legalized that they would not like marijuana taxed at a normal rate. I just think that it is a battle to fight another day. It is hard to argue that the poor are worse off buying marijuana legally rather than illegally, especially when the prices start to fall below what you would pay on the streets which it will as soon as the supply is able to m…

> Supply is pretty low because the only companies who have licenses are medical marijuana companies that already had a license, more companies will become licensed soon. It's also a high risk business. You might invest millions on growing a crop only for the Federal administration to change policies in a few years and come in and blowtorch your crop.

Why would they blowtorch it? Them there wouldn't be any evidence for the Federal indictment.