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Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

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Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last statement sounded weird to me. The matching figure from here: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/tobac... would be the volume of smoke inhaled (hookah session = 150 cigarettes). Equivalent is probably the wrong word to describe that.

Given that hookah smoke feels significantly more mild and moist than cigarette smoke, volume alone is likely a poor measure of health impact. OT: "Hookah is also called [...] hubble-bubble [...] " Citation needed.

They provide a citation!

There are multiple uses of it in Google search results.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#32
post #2

Ugh, is this going to look like Big Tobacco in 50 years? Vice taxes and revenue streams to be kept alive for the district? That's going to be such a kick-in-the-backside for everyone who just wanted to decriminalize it & stop putting people away for years.

Regarding the health aspects of marijuana, we of course lack the wealth of knowledge that we now have on the detrimental effects of tobacco on pulmonary function and lung cancer risk. The experts with whom I have discussed this (a few pulmonologists) usually ask about marijuana smoke in the same breath as tobacco smoke, and consider it a probable carcinogen. Fun somewhat-related fact that I learned last week: a one h…

> Regarding the health aspects of marijuana, we of course lack the wealth of knowledge that we now have on the detrimental effects of tobacco on pulmonary function and lung cancer risk.

Knowledge is potentially unbounded, but I wouldn't say we "lack" anything. Marijuana is probably the single most well-studied substance on the planet. Most FDA-approved drugs have gone through only a fraction of the level of study and testing that marijuana has.

> The experts with whom I have discussed this (a few pulmonologists) usually ask about marijuana smoke in the same breath as tobacco smoke, and consider it a probable carcinogen.

I've done a lot of research on this topic; unfortunately it's on another hard drive at the moment, but thankfully it's a very easy topic to research yourself.

Marijuana itself is not carcinogenic - in fact, it has cancer-fighting properties in some cases, and could be used as an aid in treating cancer directly, not just symptomatically. Consuming marijuana in edible or vapor form possesses no risk of cancer.

Interestingly, there have been a number of studies on heavy marijuana users (who smoke marijuana), and by and large, they have failed to conclude that even moderately heavy use of (smoked) marijuana can be linked to lung cancer. This phenomenon is well-known enough that it has spawned its own set of associated explanatory theories, and studies investigating those.

Obligatory XKCD disclaimer: https://xkcd.com/882/

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#33
post #6
post #2

Ugh, is this going to look like Big Tobacco in 50 years? Vice taxes and revenue streams to be kept alive for the district? That's going to be such a kick-in-the-backside for everyone who just wanted to decriminalize it & stop putting people away for years.

I suspect that legalisation of weed is going to be a blip in history and they'll heavily tax it to phase it out. It just doesn't make sense to encourage people to breathe in smoke.

And yet we build roads.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vice taxes and revenue streams to be kept alive for the district? In Colorado, the first $40M in taxes each year are required to be allocated towards school funding, per the state constitution. The not-so-subtle goal is to make it politically painful to repeal this amendment, as any attempt to criminalize marijuana again can be spun as an attempt to cut funding for education. > That's going to be such a kick-in-the…

> In Colorado, the first $40M in taxes each year are required to be allocated towards school funding, per the state constitution. Won't this end up like lottery funding "education" in most states? [1] A guaranteed $40M in funding to schools means the legislature will simply reduce funding by $40M and move the balance around the general fund to other initiatives. I'm not arguing additional tax money is bad, but we sho…

> I'm not arguing additional tax money is bad, but we shouldn't pretend this will product a windfall of available money for the Colorado school systems.

Nobody is - the point is that any attempt to repeal the law down the line can be viewed as a cut to the education budget.

The point of the clause is not to generate revenue for the school system; it's to create political friction against reversing the law.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it will be quite the same. Big Tobacco really profits off the fact that most people can't grow tobacco year round, and thus must purchase it at some point throughout the year. That basic fact is what ensures those companies never die. Tobacco was always grown outdoors, and there was never a need to research how to cultivate it clandestinely, be it indoors or small numbers. On the other hand, pot can b…

I can brew my own beer relatively easily in the comfort of my own home, for the final price of less than $1 per beer in ingredients. I still buy much more beer at the store than I brew.

The point being that you have the option without facing felony conviction for exercising the option.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#36
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vice taxes and revenue streams to be kept alive for the district? In Colorado, the first $40M in taxes each year are required to be allocated towards school funding, per the state constitution. The not-so-subtle goal is to make it politically painful to repeal this amendment, as any attempt to criminalize marijuana again can be spun as an attempt to cut funding for education. > That's going to be such a kick-in-the…

I think the concern was that we're just replacing illegal cartels with legal cartels. The tax revenue thing is also kind of misleading. First, that number is apparently fixed (based on your wording, I'm not familiar personally), but the there is, presumably, no upper-bound on the actual revenues, so as revenues increase, a smaller percentage goes to education. Second, vice taxes tend to be regressive, the poor pay a…

>I think the concern was that we're just replacing illegal cartels with legal cartels.

If that means fewer bear traps and less rat poison in our national parks, it's a win as far as I'm concerned.

>Second, vice taxes tend to be regressive, the poor pay a higher percentage of their incomes. Some of the "education lotteries" (state lotteries that benefit education) are basically mechanisms for transferring wealth from the poor to the rich(er). Poor people buy the lottery tickets and the tax revenues go to fund college scholarships for middle and upper-middle income kids. That's not socially healthy.

There's nothing wrong with taxing stupid.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that hookah smoke feels significantly more mild and moist than cigarette smoke, volume alone is likely a poor measure of health impact. OT: "Hookah is also called [...] hubble-bubble [...] " Citation needed.

They provide a citation! There are multiple uses of it in Google search results.

So they did! Their first citation [1] from the American Lung Association even takes it a step further:

"Other common names for waterpipes include [...], and hubbly-bubbly."

They even cite a study entitled "Hubble-bubble (water pipe) smoking: levels of nicotine and cotinine in plasma, saliva and urine". [2]

This rabbit hole goes deep!

[1] http://www.lungusa2.org/embargo/slati/Trendalert_Waterpipes....

[2] Shafagoj YA, Mohammed FI, Hadidi.KA., Int J of Clin Pharmacol Ther 2002 Jun; 40(6): 249-55.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it will be quite the same. Big Tobacco really profits off the fact that most people can't grow tobacco year round, and thus must purchase it at some point throughout the year. That basic fact is what ensures those companies never die. Tobacco was always grown outdoors, and there was never a need to research how to cultivate it clandestinely, be it indoors or small numbers. On the other hand, pot can b…

As far as easy to grow, I don't know, I don't have the greenest thumb in the world, but it's been pretty darn hard for me. Then if you start talking about real quality, as far as I've seen from some documentaries, it requires a lot of dedication and knowledge to get the kind of quality that I'd smoke consistently. I guess my point is, practically speaking, I see 99% of people still buying it even if it's totally lega…

It's basically like brewing beer. It's a skill with labor, knowledge, and experience required to get the desired output.

Outdoor requires less moving parts. Still a lot of variables, especially considering you can drive to the store and have your pick ;)

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#40
post #36
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the concern was that we're just replacing illegal cartels with legal cartels. The tax revenue thing is also kind of misleading. First, that number is apparently fixed (based on your wording, I'm not familiar personally), but the there is, presumably, no upper-bound on the actual revenues, so as revenues increase, a smaller percentage goes to education. Second, vice taxes tend to be regressive, the poor pay a…

>I think the concern was that we're just replacing illegal cartels with legal cartels. If that means fewer bear traps and less rat poison in our national parks, it's a win as far as I'm concerned. >Second, vice taxes tend to be regressive, the poor pay a higher percentage of their incomes. Some of the "education lotteries" (state lotteries that benefit education) are basically mechanisms for transferring wealth from…

Am I reading that correctly? You are saying that poor people are stupid?
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