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Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

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61–70 of 91 posts

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#61

I'm hopeful that future cryptocurrencies won't be so energy-intensive to mine. Bitcoin is already a non-negligible contributor to global CO2 emissions, believe it or not. EDIT: Reversible computing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing ) is a possible way to have computationally difficult proof-of-work while minimizing energy consumption.

Define non-negligible and show us some numbers. Mining is supposed to be difficult.

The problem with a lot of cryptocurrencies is that the mining is difficult and wasteful; you're doing a lot of computation that only makes economic sense if a lot of other people are also doing it, and it's plain that many of those people are trying to do it using someone else's equipment, which is a form of theft (specifically, conversion).

I like DogeCoin (much shibe) but this is still a Bad Thing. It would be much better if the problem being solved to create a blockchain were also useful in some other context, eg protein folding. Of course, some such problems are handled better than others by computers; protein folding is something that humans seem to do well but for which we haven't managed to develop great algorithms yet.

But if part of the work can be done in the human brain rather than in a CPU/GPU/ASIC, is that bad? The current computation model basically means that mining rewards go to whoever invests the most capital, ie has money to throw at the problem. This is inherently inequitable, because it means people with more money or a willingness to appropriate the equipment of others will mine/dig/discover more coin. Of course, the argument is that since mining is rather random, in theory you can start mining on your small CPU tomorrow and hit some coin, or get a random amount of coin for a fixed amount of mining. But random rewards devalue expertise and experience in favor of an unnaturally even probability distribution. I really think the computational abstraction is a barrier to cyptocurrency adoption, because ultimately your economic incentive is only as good as people's adoption of a sunk cost fallacy.

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#62

I'm hopeful that future cryptocurrencies won't be so energy-intensive to mine. Bitcoin is already a non-negligible contributor to global CO2 emissions, believe it or not. EDIT: Reversible computing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing ) is a possible way to have computationally difficult proof-of-work while minimizing energy consumption.

I wonder if the energy spent moving/securing bitcoin is more or less than the energy we spend moving/securing cash/credit. Driving armored trucks full of cash and coins around isn't free. Nor is it free to keep the regular banking system's electronic infrastructure running.

That's not a remotely fair comparison, as Bitcoin is capable of processing a grand total of 7 transactions per second, globally.

That's not a typo. Seven. For the whole damned BTC network.

That quantity of transactions would easily be handled by a single, small server.

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#63
post #3

If cryptocurrencies become mainstream, this will be a bigger problem I think. Even things like "free" electricity are attractive for mining purposes, ex: universities, businesses, etc. If every student setup mining, it adds up (at the university / business' expense). If I am the one paying for an office at $500 a month that includes all electricity usage, is it fair to plug in a ton of mining hardware and profit / su…

There is a new extremely "green" office building in Seattle that does meter/monitor individual electricity plugs. It's uncommon, but not entirely unprecedented.

Is that the greenfire campus or whatever in Ballard?

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#64
post #29

I'm hopeful that future cryptocurrencies won't be so energy-intensive to mine. Bitcoin is already a non-negligible contributor to global CO2 emissions, believe it or not. EDIT: Reversible computing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing ) is a possible way to have computationally difficult proof-of-work while minimizing energy consumption.

From the README of my "Cuckoo Cycle" Proof-of-Work at https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo : Mining is generally considered to be inherently power hungry but it need not be. It’s a consequence of making the proof of work computationally intensive. If computation is minimized in favor of random access to gigabytes of memory (incurring long latencies), then mining will require large investments in RAM but relatively little…

The next complain will be that the cryptocurrencies are so memory intensive that the RAM production is a non-negligible contributor to global CO2 emissions.

What's the defense against someone with a lot of money that can buy an ASIC farm or a memory farm or a whatever farm that is needed for the computation? How much money should the chip builders charge for that? How many energy can be used in the production of the critical item?

Essentially, if 50 BCT cost ~$25000, to create them you must just burn ~$25000 of petrol, i.e. 250 barrels. If you burn only 200 barrels, someone will find a faster method burning 201 that is still profitable. (You can choice to burn them during mining, or during the chips fabrication, or during the chip design, or any combination of them.)

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a new extremely "green" office building in Seattle that does meter/monitor individual electricity plugs. It's uncommon, but not entirely unprecedented.

Is that the greenfire campus or whatever in Ballard?

I was thinking of the Bullet Center on cap hill actually. Not sure about Greenfire.

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#66
Would it really surprise anyone if it was revealed that stuff like this already happened with Bitcoin? Seriously, give a bunch of hackers with access to racks full of Other People's Machines, plus an obvious way to turn cycles into money, and the only surprise would be if they didn't take advantage of the opportunity. I for one expect this to be the norm for every cryptocurrency from now until the end of time. The only question is how much of it the rest of the world is willing to tolerate.

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#67
post #29

I'm hopeful that future cryptocurrencies won't be so energy-intensive to mine. Bitcoin is already a non-negligible contributor to global CO2 emissions, believe it or not. EDIT: Reversible computing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing ) is a possible way to have computationally difficult proof-of-work while minimizing energy consumption.

From the README of my "Cuckoo Cycle" Proof-of-Work at https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo : Mining is generally considered to be inherently power hungry but it need not be. It’s a consequence of making the proof of work computationally intensive. If computation is minimized in favor of random access to gigabytes of memory (incurring long latencies), then mining will require large investments in RAM but relatively little…

There could be an ASIC for that. There's a new memory interface that works at 10 TB/sec with 16GB memory[1].Currently there's no cpu/gpu architecture in planning that's even close to needing that memory bandwidth, and the manufacturing is expensive.

All this means this tech won't fit decentralization well.

[1]http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=13209...

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#68

I'm hopeful that future cryptocurrencies won't be so energy-intensive to mine. Bitcoin is already a non-negligible contributor to global CO2 emissions, believe it or not. EDIT: Reversible computing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing ) is a possible way to have computationally difficult proof-of-work while minimizing energy consumption.

Ripple's consensus algorithm pretty much has this licked. https://ripple.com/wiki/Consensus - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/10180/what-are-th... - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/13330/what-is-the...

I'm Ripple Labs' Head of Tech Ops and I have to say I think it's amazing. Additionally, there's a program Ripple Labs are running which grants XRP for computing power donated to World Community Grid. So if you want to spend computing power you can, while doing some good. https://www.computingforgood.org/

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#69
post #67
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the README of my "Cuckoo Cycle" Proof-of-Work at https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo : Mining is generally considered to be inherently power hungry but it need not be. It’s a consequence of making the proof of work computationally intensive. If computation is minimized in favor of random access to gigabytes of memory (incurring long latencies), then mining will require large investments in RAM but relatively little…

There could be an ASIC for that. There's a new memory interface that works at 10 TB/sec with 16GB memory[1].Currently there's no cpu/gpu architecture in planning that's even close to needing that memory bandwidth, and the manufacturing is expensive. All this means this tech won't fit decentralization well. [1] http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=13209...

[deleted]

Re: Harvard supercomputing cluster hijacked to mine Dogecoin

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: http://www.nxtcrypto.org/ 100% Proof of stake, 1 minute blocks, no mining.

Isn't that a pyramid scheme? To have any nxt, you need to buy it from someone else.

Is precious metal a pyramid scheme? o.O
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