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Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

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Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#61

What is up with the obsession to get women coding? Why does it matter? You don't see anything like this in female-dominated professions.

Did you research this, or are you relying on casual observation? There's going to be heavy selection bias here if you're in the software industry but not involved in traditionally female-dominated professions.

Anyway, if the shoe were on the other foot, as a male feminist I would be in favor of getting more men coding.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#62
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing is starting a business not learning computer science. Women could start a health care company, or at-home nursing, etc... and get bought for a billion something (in theory).

True.. but you gotta learn computer science (or coding or something along those lines) if you're going to start the next "WhatsApp" business. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen in other fields. But I think you know it doesn't happen nearly as often or you would not have ended your comment with in theory . Just about anything could happen... in theory .

Not really. You need to hire a coder, mostly.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#63

What is up with the obsession to get women coding? Why does it matter? You don't see anything like this in female-dominated professions.

Anecdotal evidence: I started off in nursing school with an intent to get a master's before ultimately finishing with CS. The nursing school I went to was well respected and made great efforts to make male students feel 'normal' in the female dominated area. They didn't aggressively recruit males at that point, but we were seen as valuable and worth including. I'd like to think that females could have a similar exper…

I absolutely agree with you. Obviously, no one should ever feel like they aren't welcome in a field because of their gender. I just don't see the point of making giant, obsessive efforts to push a group of people into a field and then patting ourselves on the back when our plan works, and we don't feel so guilty anymore.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#64
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you do. Nursing: http://www.minoritynurse.com/tags/men-nursing Teaching: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/mar/23/advocates-say... ".. who bring a different perspective to the job, may connect better with some children and can provide positive male figures in their lives." Same goes for women in technology or any other misrepresented field.

Yeah, those are reputable sources.

Their reputability is irrelevant to their effectiveness as counterexamples to your claim.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#65
post #28
post #18

I recently read the "top jobs" on the us news and world report website. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-b... Computer jobs were well represented, but so were health sciences. Here's the full list 1. software developer - san jose - 116K (93k natl avg) 2. computer systems analyst - (couldn’t find it in SF, best anywhere was $116k in bridgeport, 84k nation avg) 3. dentist - couldn’t find SF, c…

Get into dental or medical school and you are set.

Right, I'm in. There was an open transom. It's dark though and there's nobody about, what do I do now?

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#66
post #13
post #3

... and they all promptly changed their majors when they found out forgetting a semi-colon made their programs not compile.

It's not that ridiculous, I think public static void main () scared off about 25% of the students who took introduction to computer programming (java) at UBC. Hopefully the author is not implying that women would be more easily put off by that kind of thing than men (it could well be true or even the other way around, but without hard data to back it up, that's just sexist nonsense.)

This is why I pushed for python in my CS101 class, but the department stuck to java since that was what was demanded by internship employers.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#67

What is up with the obsession to get women coding? Why does it matter? You don't see anything like this in female-dominated professions.

I don't see it as specifically about "getting women coding", rather "addressing the gender bias". Given that approximately 50% of the population (and ~60% of the "educated" population) are women, it's abnormal for a sector to be so heavily male. This indicates that women are being discouraged, in some way, from entering the sector. Women who might otherwise have contributed a great deal to our industry. Think of it m…

So, you're saying that aside from genitalia, men and women are exactly the same and, in a vacuum, the distribution of genders in any given profession should be perfectly equal? You really believe that?

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#68
post #18

I recently read the "top jobs" on the us news and world report website. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-b... Computer jobs were well represented, but so were health sciences. Here's the full list 1. software developer - san jose - 116K (93k natl avg) 2. computer systems analyst - (couldn’t find it in SF, best anywhere was $116k in bridgeport, 84k nation avg) 3. dentist - couldn’t find SF, c…

> We need to consider, seriously, the possibility that avoidance of high tech in favor of health fields is a very rational choice [...]

It's great if people are making a rational. Onsidered choice.

I'd love to see research. I suspect that people are not making that informed choice and that segregation along sex happens much much earlier.

And if being an RN is so good why are so many nurses imported from other nations? Perhaps that doesn't happen in the US or at least not for RNs.

As an aside: the highest paying RN job is in San Jose - isn't San Jose the crack capital of California? (I am only asking about crack, not about nursing or etc).

(Anecdote: My son is just over 3. He likes and talks about flamingos and his favourite colour is pink. (He has pink sunglasses.). We were drawing and I handed him a pink pencil and he said "no Dan, pink is a girl's colour." The only place he could get this from is nursery which means that children below UK school age are policing activity based on gender or staff are being careless with words. (Luckily I have a pink phone case and a pink towel and a pink watering can so I managed to persuade him that anyone can like pink.))

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#69
post #18

I recently read the "top jobs" on the us news and world report website. http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-b... Computer jobs were well represented, but so were health sciences. Here's the full list 1. software developer - san jose - 116K (93k natl avg) 2. computer systems analyst - (couldn’t find it in SF, best anywhere was $116k in bridgeport, 84k nation avg) 3. dentist - couldn’t find SF, c…

This is a strange comparison, what does software have to do with nursing? What about all of the under-employed women who are not interested in healthcare or law? As a female developer who is actively involved in helping women learn more about tech career paths, I would never presume to lure someone who felt called to nursing away from that field. I am more interested in reaching women stuck in dead-end administrative…

> This is a strange comparison, what does software have to do with nursing?

Both are statistically dominated by an individual gender. There's huge amounts that we can learn from comparing the different approaches to this matter.

Re: Women Outnumber Men For The First Time In Berkeley’s Intro To Computer Science

#70
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not maled so I google 'male advocacy' and picked what came up first. Want some equivalent sources on women? I can pick a few hundred off the top of my head. As a feminist I completely support such groups for men also in careers where women are over-representing.

How do you actually determine what is 'over-represented' and not just the result of individual agency en masse?

Individual agency en masse should be a random distribution, which results in a proportionate representation within reasonable error margins. Not having this suggests that there's another factor besides individual agency factoring into decisions. It could be something acceptable, like men can't biologically give birth (yet), or it could be something unacceptable, like blacks being targeted by police solely on suspicion of race.

This is one of the ways in which you recognize that something weird is going on with American politics. While it's a good thing to have lawyers in Congress, it's kinda weird that they're overwhelmingly lawyers.

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