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Project Tango

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Re: Project Tango

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that privacy, at least in this context, is framed as a "debate" at all, rather than as a matter for individual choice. Some people would gladly share medical information for the greater good if asked. You'd have to pry it from the cold, dead hands of others. The problem is that we currently don't separate those who would like to provide their information from those who would like to refuse beca…

A few points. There isn't any coercion going on with any of the things we're talking about. Every technology product has at least the choice to not use it. It's quite difficult to ask meaningful questions about what users are comfortable with, get meaningful answers, and then figure out how the answer they've already given applies to a grey area situation where the cost of getting it wrong is a lawsuit. It becomes no…

There isn't any coercion going on with any of the things we're talking about. Every technology product has at least the choice to not use it.

But that's exactly the problem: many of the modern technologies that pose potential risks to privacy don't in practice provide an opt-out for the people whose privacy they might infringe.

Sometimes, you do have a choice. However, if you don't know about it or understand the implications, you can't make an informed decision.

Sometimes you don't get any meaningful choice, for example if governments decide it's OK to share sensitive healthcare information now. Strictly speaking you do have a choice, but that choice is never to visit a doctor or hospital. Try contrasting the dangers from a significant reduction in public trust in the integrity and ethics of the entire medical profession with the hypothetical future benefits of analysing aggregate healthcare data, and let me know which one really seems like the bigger risk.

Sometimes you don't get any choice in practice because your data is collected incidentally. When you were in the background of someone's personal holiday snap, that didn't really matter. When you're in the background of a CCTV image, which is centrally recorded and subject to future data mining operations, it matters more. When you're in the background of numerous CCTV images just because you left your home, which are subject to geotagging, facial recognition, gait analysis, covert audio recording, correlation with other databases such as mobile phone history, ANPR scans and purchase history, permanent archival and any additional data mining techniques that anyone who gets hold of the data might find later... Well, now you're in the plot of a sci-fi short story that doesn't end well.

Except that of course, it's not a story any more. Insurers already bump premiums based on profiling, but that profiling is notoriously inaccurate. Lenders already check credit records, which again are notoriously inaccurate. Employers already not only Google job applicants but in some cases also ask for personal log-in credentials to read through their social networking history. Governments already sell personal data held for legitimate public interest reasons to private parties, and even in seemingly simple cases like the government's vehicle licensing authority in the UK providing details of the registered owner of a car with given plates, this has been widely abused. Where these things have been curtailed -- which doesn't happen nearly as often as it should -- it has mostly been because primary legislation was passed or the rules for government's own departments were updated to cover specific cases, and only after so many people suffered from the intrusion that it became a politically significant issue.

To be clear, I don't object to the idea that there are potentially great benefits to be had from data mining, including in sensitive cases like public health data. But I think you are almost completely ignoring the accompanying risks, despite a seemingly endless stream of failures resulting in serious adverse consequences for individuals whose privacy wasn't adequately protected. We need the rest of how society works to catch up with the capabilities of modern technology before we can reap the benefits without paying too high a price.

Re: Project Tango

#262

This is essentially putting a Kinect in your phone and hooking it up with hopefully high-level APIs. It may take 2-3 years to make it into regular phones, but when it does it will be huge. Apple's acquisition of PrimeSense (the makers of the 1st gen Kinect) means they're also working on this. To give you a real-world example: when I started BarSsense ( http://www.barsense.com ) the core problem was tracking the path…

Wow, this is an amazing application. I love olympic weightlifting, and seeing somebody build a training aide using computer vision in an app makes me feel like living in the future. What a nice contribution to this beautiful sport.

This may be nice for certain niche users.

But the trend I see is companies telling us to regularly buy stuff we really don't need (and obviously throw away our "old" solutions). The world has way more pressing issues than yet-another-gadget. And the planet's resources are not unlimited.

Re: Project Tango

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few points. There isn't any coercion going on with any of the things we're talking about. Every technology product has at least the choice to not use it. It's quite difficult to ask meaningful questions about what users are comfortable with, get meaningful answers, and then figure out how the answer they've already given applies to a grey area situation where the cost of getting it wrong is a lawsuit. It becomes no…

There isn't any coercion going on with any of the things we're talking about. Every technology product has at least the choice to not use it. But that's exactly the problem: many of the modern technologies that pose potential risks to privacy don't in practice provide an opt-out for the people whose privacy they might infringe. Sometimes, you do have a choice. However, if you don't know about it or understand the imp…

>despite a seemingly endless stream of failures resulting in serious adverse consequences for individuals whose privacy wasn't adequately protected.

Such as? Typically it seems that things become a scandal based on hypothetical harm rather than actual harm.

Re: Project Tango

#264

Really cool. I love how this could help the blind (my first thought when I saw how it worked - glad it was acknowledged in the video as a use case). The stuff Google's working on (and the face they're making it public is really exciting me (this, Glass, contact lens etc.). The more I see the more I think I'm going to spend more time developing for Google's platforms and less time developing for Apple's. I'm sure Appl…

Since you mentioned it here is a project I'm working on with blind and visually impaired users with Glass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEDg0k1HsH8 and I'm interested in extending it using something like tango.

Re: Project Tango

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm a neo-luddite.

This has applications even for, uh, "normal" people. For example, online real estate portals. People who are house-hunting would probably appreciate floorplans or a 3D tour. Agents, landlords or property developers would be able to easily create those with their mobile device.

Do you see a lot of agents using Photosynth to give 3D tours ? It has been out for 4 years.

Sure with embedded in a smartphone would be more convenient, but I'm sure agents have some cameras when they get in houses.

Re: Project Tango

#266

"- Johnny Lee and the ATAP-Project Tango Team" Johnny Lee was the guy with the awesome Wii Controller demos back in 2007 (can't believe it's been that long). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw edit: here's the full set of demos: http://johnnylee.net/projects/wii/ (also, I'm assuming it's the same guy, but his site says he's at Google now)

Awesome, I thought I recognized him! I was talking about him recently to a friend. Those demos were inspiring and very cool.

Re: Project Tango

#267
post #104
post #53

"Imagine measuring your room by just walking around in it." Yes, and imagine transmitting each of those footsteps in real time back to Google, so they can have a map of your room, too, in case they, or other parties, ever need it. I was just having a discussion yesterday with a friend who works at Google about what data they store when you query their search engine. Every single keystroke, including backspaces, is st…

Let me give you another example that goes on the line of your comment. Days ago a friend showed me how after calling a restaurant (just a number) for doing a reservation and later the contact list displayed the name of the restaurant and an image of it. Cool, right? Joe and Foo love this feature, but do not know the implications of it: a query is sent to Google asking for the info on a number (one must presume, tied…

I would make this trade. Users should have the ability to opt out, but it should opt users in by default so that those of us who choose to use it can have a usable service and the company will have a profitable product.

Most people do not care. I am glad that some people do care, and I read the news actively.

As much as it sends chills down the spines of wary folk, for the time being, the government and the huge corporations have my trust.

Re: Project Tango

#268
post #7

This technology inside Google Glass would be pretty killer.

As long as it's in the phone, couldn't you tether it to Google Glass to generate a real-time HUD based on where you were? (and perhaps also capture images to attach to the 3D model) That was the first thing I thought about - actual augmented reality down to the inch would be quite something.

You don't have to tie it to google glass. You can make the phone itself serve as 'window' onto the "down to the inch" augmented reality.

Re: Project Tango

#269
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the application beyond gaming. The other applications discussed are basically shopping. Essentially this would make it much easier to represent the physical world digitally. But what use cases does a consumer or the average phone user have for digital representations of the physical space around them, particularly given that the user is already aware of the the physical space around them? How can t…

Any mechanical engineer who's had to take a 3D object and model it in CAD will love this. I've been toying with the idea of such software in a phone for a while but never bothered exploring it because I lack the technical chops. There's a piece of software I've previously used called PhotoModeller [1] that allows you to calibrate a standard digital P&S camera then use a bunch of shots of the scene from various angles…

This is called photogrammetry - check out Autodesk's 123D Catch iPhone and web app, it yields some pretty good results if you take enough evenly lit photos with decent overlap.

Re: Project Tango

#270
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My carrier pigeon just arrived with some TCP/IP/pigeon protocol packets, and I see I've caused someone's head to explode on the Internet. I'll put down my vegetable hoe and ask you this. Given that these are my friends, neighbors, and former coworkers I'm talking about at Google, is there any information about you that you would be uncomfortable having your friends collect and store in a database for unknown parties…

that's silly, people at Google don't have access to your data, and even if they did, they would not have your name attached on

Just in case you're not joking: Yes, of course they have access to my data, and unless I delete all Google cookies, sign out from all Google services (gmail, youtube, etc.) and possibly reboot my browser before making a Google query, they add every keystroke of that query to everything they've read in my email, every youtube video I've watched, my contacts and my contacts' contacts (pointing back at me), driving endpoints from Google maps, phone numbers for calendar notifications, and on and on. Of course they know my name along with everything else they know about me.

Even twenty years ago, if you called a mail order catalog company, and it was the first time you'd called them, the sales rep on the phone already had your number (from commercial caller ID), your name (either "Bob Smith" or "Sally Smith"), and your household's credit card numbers before you even opened your mouth. They would still ask you for them for security reasons, to see which of your cards you wanted to use, to double-check accuracy, and in order to NOT freak you out, but companies you had never heard of already knew your name before you ever called them.

But you think Google can't figure out my name?

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