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Project Tango

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Re: Project Tango

#221

Post by siera »

ulyssesgrant wrote: post #219

As someone who's worked on visual odometry projects before, I'm extremely interested in how they're able to compute the phone's motion estimations so accurately and in real time on a mobile device. Is any of this project open source? Is anyone here familiar with the vision techniques they're using to accomplish this feat? Perhaps there's an FPGA or ASIC designed for visual odometry inside the phone.

It uses a Myriad 1 processor from Movidius http://www.movidius.com/tango. It's a custom media coprocessor aimed at mobile devices. I found more information about the processor architecture in these slides : http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc23/...

Edit : Video of the talk associated with the slides http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiTaPRtN2yM

Re: Project Tango

#222

Post by discostrings »

moultano wrote: post #209
sneak wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to stop centralized data collection. The reason it doesn't happen is because corporations don't like giving up control of data that they can keep to themselves and store forever. Many of these apps could run clientside and access the cloud solely for information, but that doesn't fit in with the Google vision of organizing the world's information and making it useful for selling products and services…

This is a very myopic view that has already caused many deaths. Privacy concerns around medical records have prevented any central database of them from being built, and thus prevented us from saving all of the lives that could be saved by analyzing that data. Data is what lets us keep hospitals safe by establishing best practices, lets us cure diseases, lets us avoid unnecessary treatment, and just in general, separ…

> This is a very myopic view that has already caused many deaths. Privacy concerns around medical records have prevented any central database of them from being built, and thus prevented us from saving all of the lives that could be saved by analyzing that data.

This line of reasoning seems similar to arguing that, by not creating a society in which 95% of people live in sanitized hospital rooms and the remaining 5% of people are doctors and nurses, we have "already caused many deaths".

Yes, the fact that people value things like "privacy", "being in large groups where others could be ill", and "moving from place to place" will "cause deaths". But that doesn't mean individuals should be forced to abandon these things for better health outcomes. While some benefits could certainly come from centralizing medical records, I tend to think that benefit cannot justify compelling people to keep their records in a centralized database, in the same way I don't think the health benefits of not traveling justify banning travel. You may not value privacy, but I think that in a truly inclusive society that values the individual, privacy should remain a real option for those who value it.

> There are plenty of concerns about data, and plenty of ways of mitigating those concerns, but a blanket condemnation of any centralized data would hold humanity back immeasurably (and in fact, already has.)

I agree that a blanket condemnation of centralized data is also not a good approach. Each individual should be able to make this choice in a meaningful way, with respect by default that any given person might care about it.

Re: Project Tango

#223

Post by oscargrouch »

evanlivingston wrote: post #81
martythemaniak wrote: post #27

This is essentially putting a Kinect in your phone and hooking it up with hopefully high-level APIs. It may take 2-3 years to make it into regular phones, but when it does it will be huge. Apple's acquisition of PrimeSense (the makers of the 1st gen Kinect) means they're also working on this. To give you a real-world example: when I started BarSsense ( http://www.barsense.com ) the core problem was tracking the path…

I don't understand the application beyond gaming. The other applications discussed are basically shopping. Essentially this would make it much easier to represent the physical world digitally. But what use cases does a consumer or the average phone user have for digital representations of the physical space around them, particularly given that the user is already aware of the the physical space around them? How can t…

Example app:

You can see crowd moving on streets, where each person is a box (or a 3d avatar)... than if other people have installed the same app as you do.. it will show a icon on top of the box representing the person (the phone sends a signal IR, BT whatever) .. or is geolocated by a central server that sync the position of everybody..

Than you can interact with those strangers on the street.. in the 3d box you see representing the person, it may have more clues about that person..

so you can send a message to a girl/guy you liked and ask to hang out with you.. for intance.. its like a people radar..

Can work in traffic too.. so you can tag people in cars around you..

You can create a game, and involve people you have tagged, and give each one a role.. like in a RPG

If you get feedback of the camera too, you can see people with 3d stuff on top.. like holding a 3d gun..or a secret message in your virtual shirt.. it would work like a magical glass

I had this micro idea, a year ago.. this is the technology to make it work.. feel free to use it to create something

just call me for a beer later :)

Re: Project Tango

#224

Post by zevyoura »

cbr wrote: post #196
morganherlocker wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to create some sort of crowdsourced database for these types of anecdotes that could then be sifted through and corroborated. Something like that might bring a bit more transparency to the "deal" we all make with these types of services. I get the whole argument of "well you wanted to use the free service, so now they get to monetize your data", but what services collect and how the data is us…

The most dystopic uses of data are the ones where you'll never really know it was sold on. Get turned down for a job in five years because the owner paid to run a search in a private database that has something about your illicit past? How will you know? (Note: I'm not actually that worried about this -- I think society will adjust -- but I think collecting anecdotes only shames the people using your data in ways tha…

There are laws about pre-employment background checks; in general they can only be run with the consent of the person being investigated, and the person being investigated must be able to receive a free copy. So you will know.

In addition, the FCRA mandates the following cannot appear on background checks:

- Bankruptcies after 10 years

- Civil suits, civil judgments and records of arrest, from date of entry, after seven years

- Accounts placed for collection after seven years

- Any other negative information (except criminal convictions) after seven years

Re: Project Tango

#225

Post by jrockway »

gilgoomesh wrote: post #193
evanlivingston wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm a neo-luddite.

I don't think you're a luddite. With any technology like this, it's important to ask: what applications does this really enable and will those applications simply be a waste of time. This is an unveiling of a technology but the "applications" they show in this video are probably a waste of time to most users. Google have not shown a killer app that uses this tech. Maybe they're working on something (they hint that th…

Google Maps already has indoor maps.

Re: Project Tango

#226

Post by hrjet »

cbr wrote: post #191
sneak wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to stop centralized data collection. The reason it doesn't happen is because corporations don't like giving up control of data that they can keep to themselves and store forever. Many of these apps could run clientside and access the cloud solely for information, but that doesn't fit in with the Google vision of organizing the world's information and making it useful for selling products and services…

The solution is to stop centralized data collection. Centralized data collection gives me good auto-complete in search. It means when I start sending an email to John Smith and Jane Doe it can ask me if I might have meant Jane Roe instead. It means when I lose my phone I don't lose any of my data.

A decentralized solution for that would be to have user's data stored in user's private cloud, encrypted and cached on the client.

Re: Project Tango

#227

Post by _Adam »

blhack wrote: post #165
SiVal wrote: post #53

"Imagine measuring your room by just walking around in it." Yes, and imagine transmitting each of those footsteps in real time back to Google, so they can have a map of your room, too, in case they, or other parties, ever need it. I was just having a discussion yesterday with a friend who works at Google about what data they store when you query their search engine. Every single keystroke, including backspaces, is st…

Good god I am so sick of reading comments like this. This view of the world is just lazy . Almost as lazy as "remember, if you're using a service for free, you're not the customer, YOU'RE THE PRODUCT!", which seems to get parroted every single time there is any discussion related to google, facebook, microsoft, instagram, twitter, or any other web company that uses ads as a revenue model. Yes, google can know what yo…

I don't think it's laziness. That can be part of it, but I believe the core issue is a specific mentality these type of people have. They see the world in a black and white. "Us" and "them". Their view of the world has these two (or more) sides always in conflict. So, they effectively view Google as an enemy to fight against.

My theory as to why people act this way is that they do so to give their lives meaning. That, or there is something that makes their life meaningful they believe the "enemy" will take away. For instance "Google spying on my children" -> "Google is the enemy". They see Google, the NSA, Microsoft, etc, as a cohesive group that is "after them".

But in absence of this conflict, or the external meaning that is the cause of the (perceived) conflict, they wouldn't know what to do with their own existence. Religion, alcohol, and hedonism may end up filling this gap.

In contrast, those who have a self-defined objective see the world as a massive system of problems to solve (or not solve). There's no singular "enemy", just a huge number of people who all have their own motivations and ideals. "Google" is nothing more than a tightly-bound collection of humans.

Re: Project Tango

#228

Post by hrjet »

SiVal wrote: post #53

"Imagine measuring your room by just walking around in it." Yes, and imagine transmitting each of those footsteps in real time back to Google, so they can have a map of your room, too, in case they, or other parties, ever need it. I was just having a discussion yesterday with a friend who works at Google about what data they store when you query their search engine. Every single keystroke, including backspaces, is st…

> I'm not saying that Google is evil.

Google probably isn't evil, but is getting naughty.

On Android, they make it so difficult to avoid data collection. One example, which frustrated me yesterday: To access the Play store on Android, you need to enable background data sync. The problem is, there is no indication of what that background data is, and how do I turn it on only for the Play store. The UI is so designed that you can only enable or disable sync for all of Android, and clicking on a given app's name starts syncing that app automatically (there is no confirmation and there is no toggle to turn it off for that particular app).

Re: Project Tango

#229

Post by moultano »

discostrings wrote: post #222
moultano wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very myopic view that has already caused many deaths. Privacy concerns around medical records have prevented any central database of them from being built, and thus prevented us from saving all of the lives that could be saved by analyzing that data. Data is what lets us keep hospitals safe by establishing best practices, lets us cure diseases, lets us avoid unnecessary treatment, and just in general, separ…

> This is a very myopic view that has already caused many deaths. Privacy concerns around medical records have prevented any central database of them from being built, and thus prevented us from saving all of the lives that could be saved by analyzing that data. This line of reasoning seems similar to arguing that, by not creating a society in which 95% of people live in sanitized hospital rooms and the remaining 5%…

It's a cost-benefit tradeoff like anything else. Unfortunately, the costs are filtered through fear-mongering and the benefits are trade secrets, so the debate is particularly ineffectual.

The thing I find most aggravating about it is that the standard for harm for data seems to be "What could a totalitarian government do with it?" and there are very few useful things that couldn't be used for very bad things in the hands of a totalitarian government (newspapers, for instance.) Meanwhile, companies can't reveal all the useful things that are consequences of their data because that makes them vulnerable to both competitors and spam.

So we're pretty much stuck with only uninformed opinions and worst-case scenario analysis, which isn't a rational way to approach anything. The only way I can think to improve the debate is for privacy advocates to focus on actual harm that has actually happened to someone to at least keep things grounded in reality.

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