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Leaving Google

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Re: Leaving Google

#121

Post by mahyarm »

bduerst wrote: post #78
mathattack wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to quote that line too. But is it really that racist? Relative to the rest of the US, it seems remarkably tolerant, no?

To a Canadian, the vast majority of the U.S. probably appears racist, considering that some would argue classism is the new racism, but I digress.

I concur as another Canadian. There is a subtle racist world view that runs through American society, probably rooted from the higher amount of social economic inequality and history of slavery. Canadians for the most part just don't think like that and it can be a bit surprising to encounter at first.

Re: Leaving Google

#123

Post by benched »

haberman wrote: post #79
eevilspock wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

> Vancouver is a real city. That's not very nice. > Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Sorry you didn't enjoy it here. Every city has its ups and downs, but a lot of people (myself included) love it. It's beautiful, we are surrounded by nature, we have the best summers of anywhere I've ever been, I find the people f…

I note that the parent is mainly talking about the people, and you're mainly talking about other things, except to admit that the people are 'a bit' (I would say profoundly) passive. Believe me, I love the scenery and the sushi too, but goddamn this place lonely.

Re: Leaving Google

#124

Post by coolsunglasses »

cromwellian wrote: post #30
drhayes9 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get some context on the "racist" comment, Google [bart killings]. There are multiple cases of BART transit cops shooting unarmed people of color. Also, the Oakland police department was on the verge of Federal takeover last year largely due to a series of racist-overtoned cases.

That's not really Silicon Valley specific. The entire criminal justice system in the US is racist. Just look at how "Stand Your Ground" laws are applied when African Americans are defending themselves.

I've heard it argued that it's predominantly AAs that use and benefit from SYG.

Re: Leaving Google

#125

Post by mikestew »

zem wrote: post #84
eevilspock wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

anecdata: my sister lives in los angeles, and her company once posted her to their seattle office for a few months. her impression was that it was an extremely white city; that might not be the sort of thing that strikes you if you're white yourself, but coming from california it would definitely reinforce the provincial impression.

> that might not be the sort of thing that strikes you if you're white yourself

Oh, it struck this Midwestern white boy almost as soon as he got off the plane. I mean, I'd heard the phrase "white bread neighborhood" and always took it to mean there's only a few non-white people living there. No, in Seattle (and Redmond, where I live) entire neighborhoods can be comprised of nothing but white folk.

I notice because I grew up in and around Indianapolis (with brief stints in Detroit). 20% black population in Indy (I could be off by a bit) means 1 out of 5 people I work with, buy groceries from, pass on the street, whatever, are black (ratio of friends was a bit lower than 20%). Now drop me in Redmond/Seattle where I rarely see a black person, and it's just...weird. I mentioned this to natives, and they acted like it was the most racist thing they'd ever heard. What, you thought I wouldn't notice that Bellevue's black population is 0.9%?

Re: Leaving Google

#127

Post by djs123sdj »

eloisant wrote: post #11
Xdes wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also of the same opinion. Plus he probably doesn't want to lose his Canadian healthcare.

Congested and overpriced yes, but racist and incestuous? Why so?

I wouldn't say it's overtly racist, but there is a very strong correlation between race, class, and privilege in the Bay Area.

Unlike the traditional American narrative around race (black vs. white), in this one, the privileged group consists of well-to-do Whites, Asians, South-Asians, and other highly educated recent-immigrants, while the underprivileged group consists of ghettoized African American and Latino communities.

These underprivileged groups are segregated physically from the former (in East Palo Alto, San Francisco's Bayview, and East/West Oakland), and are mired in a multigenerational cycle of poverty, violence, and disenfranchisement. However, they constitute a significant portion of the low-skilled, low-paid service labor force.

They reap comparatively little benefit from the economic boom brought on by the tech industry. Many of the arguments here on HN and elsewhere about gentrification in the Bay Area and it's benefits/costs ignore that the situation is layered over a long history of race-based tensions in the area.

Re: Leaving Google

#128

Post by qdog »

eevilspock wrote: post #68
haberman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little sad he didn't say anything about Seattle, only a couple hours from Vancouver and with sizable and thriving Google offices. It is also has "greens and greys and unfussily variegated people" -- clearly it's not Canada, but in general it would be a much less drastic transition!

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

My impression of Seattle while living there was that it wants to be Manhattan, except that cars will stop to let you cross the street.

"Looking to be metropolitan" I guess is how I would phrase it. Wasn't really what I was looking for, but it was an interesting stay for a while.

I don't know what is more real about Vancouver, other than the newer part of downtown, I found it to be a sprawling mess just like your average US big city. Richmond was heavily Asian, Surrey seemed to have the heavier crime, and Burnaby was more suburban.

The weather in California is certainly better on average, though, I'll say that. Except for the cost of living, I'd almost assuredly go there, myself.

Re: Leaving Google

#129

Post by jypku »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #97

I thought this was interesting: "Now you can say it: Google is actually evil, right? · I don’t think so; but get back to me later. I shouldn’t write too much about Google in-the-large until I’ve got more perspective." At best, it sounds like he's a bit doubtful of Google's white-hat status but is trying to remain professional, doesn't have a specific incident to point to, or both. It will be interesting to see what h…

You're interpreting things too literally.

Re: Leaving Google

#130

Post by haberman »

rhizome wrote: post #113
haberman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vancouver is a real city. That's not very nice. > Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Sorry you didn't enjoy it here. Every city has its ups and downs, but a lot of people (myself included) love it. It's beautiful, we are surrounded by nature, we have the best summers of anywhere I've ever been, I find the people f…

Do you realize that you didn't refute or deny any of his criticisms?

I'm not sure what you're expecting when the criticisms were vague jabs like "not a real city," "provincial," "hick town."

Also I did say that I find the people friendly, which is the opposite of unfriendly. Yes Seattle people tend to be passive, but that is not the same as unfriendly.

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