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Vienna again named world's most liveable city

reuters.com

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Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#81

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

samtp wrote: post #74
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that Vienna is drivable? It doesn't strike me an any more or less drivable than anywhere else in Europe. It's certainly not Amsterdam. The entire SWPL fascination with non-driving cities, or for that matter opposed to sprawl, is just weird. So some people like to drive: That doesn't oppress you. I personally love suburban cities. Everything is so easy: You can hop in your car and be anywhere you want…

> Public transport, even in cities with great infrastructure, is soul crushingly slow and inefficient. Wow. Then how would you describe: 1. A daily 45 minute commune through barely moving traffic 2. Driving around a walmart/tj maxx/home goods/target... parking lot for 5 minutes just to find a space 3. Almost never having to interact with (or even look at) anyone in your community since when you are not inside your ho…

Behold:

1. Sprawl cities have shorter commutes [1 - compare sprawl king LA to NYC].

Even within dense places like Manhattan & EU cities, commutes take a long time. Whilst studying abroad in EU Subway Wonderland, my ~3mi subway+walk commute took 20-40mins. In Sprawl City USA, my 15mi commute took 15-20mins, with easy parking both sides.

2. This is common in dense urban cities: Parking in urban cities is a nightmare. Parking in suburban sprawl cities is a breeze.

3. Never seen the movie Pi?

[1] http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2013/03/where-it-ta...

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#82

Post by debt »

freehunter wrote: post #77
debt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living conditions? The midwest has been and is still being hit with one of the worst winters in a few decades. Also I hear that "land is cheap elsewhere" argument all the time. You're right; if I was 82 and wanted to settle down I'd buy a ranch somewhere in the palm desert for 100k, but I'm not. I'm young and I want to work. I'll live in my shitty apartment in SF long before I whither away on some plot of land in the…

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Did I mention anything about swampland? Did I mention anything about a desert? Did I mention anything about being an 82 year old withering away? I mentioned a nice house in city limits with a short, quick commute downtown to work in an office making almost as much as the house costs per year. Weather plays a factor, true, but I wouldn't want to be living in a shitty apart…

I didn't mean to imply the midwest is a swampland; I'm from the midwest. And I was serious about the a place in the desert. I wasn't comparing it to anything, the palm desert outside of LA is amazing and I literally want to live there one day.

The swampland is more of an exaggeration for the way people talk about why they don't want to move to SF, as if the cost of rent is the only reason one lives anywhere. And the San Andreas thing is another common fear I hear a lot and have myself. But why should something like fear stop one from living anywhere?

I live in SF. I commonly hear things from people in Chicago where I'm from like "yeah but I'm paying $400 for an apartment in Logan Square(which isn't true any more obvi)" or "yeah but you have to worry about deadly earthquakes". It gets kind of old because I didn't move out here to pay cheap rent nor did I move our here to wait for an earthquake to kill me.

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#83

Post by [deleted] »

samtp wrote: post #74
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that Vienna is drivable? It doesn't strike me an any more or less drivable than anywhere else in Europe. It's certainly not Amsterdam. The entire SWPL fascination with non-driving cities, or for that matter opposed to sprawl, is just weird. So some people like to drive: That doesn't oppress you. I personally love suburban cities. Everything is so easy: You can hop in your car and be anywhere you want…

> Public transport, even in cities with great infrastructure, is soul crushingly slow and inefficient. Wow. Then how would you describe: 1. A daily 45 minute commune through barely moving traffic 2. Driving around a walmart/tj maxx/home goods/target... parking lot for 5 minutes just to find a space 3. Almost never having to interact with (or even look at) anyone in your community since when you are not inside your ho…

[deleted]

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#84

Post by nodata »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #46
bane wrote: post #18

The more I travel, the more convinced I am that the American experiment with car oriented cities was a disaster that will take untold billions of dollars to rectify. It's affected everything from public safety (e.g. police can no longer walk a patrol), to loss of community (people don't really shop in the same place they live), lost productivity (stuck in traffic), and on and on and on. I'm very encouraged by recent,…

You don't think that Vienna is drivable? It doesn't strike me an any more or less drivable than anywhere else in Europe. It's certainly not Amsterdam. The entire SWPL fascination with non-driving cities, or for that matter opposed to sprawl, is just weird. So some people like to drive: That doesn't oppress you. I personally love suburban cities. Everything is so easy: You can hop in your car and be anywhere you want…

Drivable is different from requiring a car.

(See the looks you get walking round some of San Diego to see what I mean: pavement ended.)

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#85

Post by DrJokepu »

illumen wrote: post #63
DrJokepu wrote: post #37

I will take this seriously when Mercer and Reuters will move their corporate headquarters from the 6th Avenue in Manhattan and Canary Wharf in London respectively to Vienna.

Can you prove the real owners don't live there already?

Can you prove that they do?

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#86

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

twelvechairs wrote: post #80
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that Vienna is drivable? It doesn't strike me an any more or less drivable than anywhere else in Europe. It's certainly not Amsterdam. The entire SWPL fascination with non-driving cities, or for that matter opposed to sprawl, is just weird. So some people like to drive: That doesn't oppress you. I personally love suburban cities. Everything is so easy: You can hop in your car and be anywhere you want…

which cities have you lived in and tried the public transport thing if you don't mind me asking?

I don't like to disclose such information on the internet, even if all of our posts are easily indexable and identifiable.

I've lived in several cities both EU and US.

But my personal experience shouldn't be the driving factor here: I have different preferences from others. Some people love NYC, others hate it. Some love LA, others hate it. (I love both, but couldn't live in either long term)

My point is only that the motion to villainize driving and sprawl is bad. You don't have to like sprawl, but you should allow others to live it should they so choose.

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#87

Post by Brakenshire »

sentenza wrote: post #52
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that Vienna is drivable? It doesn't strike me an any more or less drivable than anywhere else in Europe. It's certainly not Amsterdam. The entire SWPL fascination with non-driving cities, or for that matter opposed to sprawl, is just weird. So some people like to drive: That doesn't oppress you. I personally love suburban cities. Everything is so easy: You can hop in your car and be anywhere you want…

My brother lives in Vienna. He usually parks his car, which he needs for family visits and the odd trip to IKEA, and then leaves it untouched for weeks, since it is easier to move around the city without it than with it.

They say in the article that the public transport system costs 1 Euro a day for a annual pass.

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#88

Post by freehunter »

debt wrote: post #82
freehunter wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Did I mention anything about swampland? Did I mention anything about a desert? Did I mention anything about being an 82 year old withering away? I mentioned a nice house in city limits with a short, quick commute downtown to work in an office making almost as much as the house costs per year. Weather plays a factor, true, but I wouldn't want to be living in a shitty apart…

I didn't mean to imply the midwest is a swampland; I'm from the midwest. And I was serious about the a place in the desert. I wasn't comparing it to anything, the palm desert outside of LA is amazing and I literally want to live there one day. The swampland is more of an exaggeration for the way people talk about why they don't want to move to SF, as if the cost of rent is the only reason one lives anywhere. And the…

I appreciate the civil tone, sorry if I flew off the handle.

SF might be great for some, but it's not for me. Unfortunately, SF, Seattle, and Vancouver always top the lists and they're all places I wouldn't dream of living in any time soon. If I'm moving, I don't want to take a pay cut. I wouldn't trade a $50,000/yr job in the midwest for a $100,000/yr job in SF, because I'd actually have less money than I do now.

I'd rather be rich in a swamp than poor in a city. I just really wish there was a list of great cities like Grand Rapids, Pittsburgh, or Kansas City where you don't have to fight traffic for hours a day, you can actually buy a house somewhere close to work, but you can also work for a great company doing something exciting and make a livable wage doing so. As you allude to, most lists of "best mid size cities" point to retirement-age people.

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#89

Post by chao- »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #81
samtp wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public transport, even in cities with great infrastructure, is soul crushingly slow and inefficient. Wow. Then how would you describe: 1. A daily 45 minute commune through barely moving traffic 2. Driving around a walmart/tj maxx/home goods/target... parking lot for 5 minutes just to find a space 3. Almost never having to interact with (or even look at) anyone in your community since when you are not inside your ho…

Behold: 1. Sprawl cities have shorter commutes [1 - compare sprawl king LA to NYC]. Even within dense places like Manhattan & EU cities, commutes take a long time. Whilst studying abroad in EU Subway Wonderland, my ~3mi subway+walk commute took 20-40mins. In Sprawl City USA, my 15mi commute took 15-20mins, with easy parking both sides. 2. This is common in dense urban cities: Parking in urban cities is a nightmare. P…

>2. This is common in dense urban cities: Parking in urban cities is a nightmare. Parking in suburban sprawl cities is a breeze.

It seems like you missed the point entirely of samtp's comment on this one. He wasn't comparing "taking a long time parking" to "taking a short time parking", but was comparing "taking any time parking" versus "not having to park at all".

>3. Never seen the movie Pi?

No. Would you care to elaborate or educate us on its relevance to the topic? I'm not trying to be HN-passive-aggressive in a "tell me so I don't have to Google it" way. I looked it up, don't quite get what you're saying, and don't have the time to watch an entire movie this very moment.

EDIT: Removed my final question because you answered it elsewhere.

Re: Vienna again named world's most liveable city

#90

Post by davmre »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #46
bane wrote: post #18

The more I travel, the more convinced I am that the American experiment with car oriented cities was a disaster that will take untold billions of dollars to rectify. It's affected everything from public safety (e.g. police can no longer walk a patrol), to loss of community (people don't really shop in the same place they live), lost productivity (stuck in traffic), and on and on and on. I'm very encouraged by recent,…

You don't think that Vienna is drivable? It doesn't strike me an any more or less drivable than anywhere else in Europe. It's certainly not Amsterdam. The entire SWPL fascination with non-driving cities, or for that matter opposed to sprawl, is just weird. So some people like to drive: That doesn't oppress you. I personally love suburban cities. Everything is so easy: You can hop in your car and be anywhere you want…

> So some people like to drive: That doesn't oppress you.

I love driving too. But relative to walking or public transit, driving is hugely resource-intensive, it has high environmental costs, you get traffic problems if too many people do it, and it requires costly investments in public and private infrastructure -- road construction and maintenance, along with huge amounts of real estate devoted to parking -- that end up being paid for by drivers and non-drivers alike.

In an (economically) ideal world, we would properly tax all the negative environmental externalities, ban free parking, and charge a small fee for the use of public roads. Then everyone could make an informed individual decision about whether their enjoyment of driving is worth the costs. With the huge subsidies drivers currently enjoy, that's pretty much impossible.

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