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Leaving Google

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Re: Leaving Google

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vancouver is a real city. That's not very nice. > Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Sorry you didn't enjoy it here. Every city has its ups and downs, but a lot of people (myself included) love it. It's beautiful, we are surrounded by nature, we have the best summers of anywhere I've ever been, I find the people f…

I've always gotten the impression that about 40% of the people you meet or see in Seattle are at that exact moment contemplating suicide. That's just the general tone of the city.

Jesus there are a lot of haters in this thread.

Re: Leaving Google

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little sad he didn't say anything about Seattle, only a couple hours from Vancouver and with sizable and thriving Google offices. It is also has "greens and greys and unfussily variegated people" -- clearly it's not Canada, but in general it would be a much less drastic transition!

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

Seattle 8 years. Sadly I have to agree wholeheartedly with this, because I've been unable to find much contrary evidence. The 'Freeze', which is deservedly famous, is very, very real, no matter how many people try to minimize its reality. Go ahead, come here - it's on display every second of every day in every cubic meter of the city. The only people who will make eye contact or speak a word to you are the homeless - I'm unable to decide whether this is because their livelihood depends on it, because they've transcended excessive self-involvement, or both. People are passive-passive, extremely unfriendly. It's like everyone is playing a private success-seeking game in their head, never really showing their cards, but presenting a cultivated image. Yes, of course in 8 years I have met some awesome people here and there (and I'm not saying the rest aren't awesome, but they aren't sharing). Yet there is also a persistent shallowness and aloofness even to a lot of my friendships that I can't seem to crack sometimes. And yes, very segregated. Scavenger hunt: find one black person on the Eastside. It might take you days. No idea what to blame for that, but it's true.

I liked the snowboarding, and I liked working at MS for less than half the time I spent there, but I'm definitely looking into relocating at this point. (For reference, I'm from Boston, where I assert that people generally say what they mean or what's at the front of their mind, instead of what's faultlessly polite or strategically advantageous.)

Re: Leaving Google

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

> Vancouver is a real city. That's not very nice. > Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Sorry you didn't enjoy it here. Every city has its ups and downs, but a lot of people (myself included) love it. It's beautiful, we are surrounded by nature, we have the best summers of anywhere I've ever been, I find the people f…

Do you realize that you didn't refute or deny any of his criticisms?

Re: Leaving Google

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little sad he didn't say anything about Seattle, only a couple hours from Vancouver and with sizable and thriving Google offices. It is also has "greens and greys and unfussily variegated people" -- clearly it's not Canada, but in general it would be a much less drastic transition!

This was Google's thought when I was talking to them. "Seattle's only a couple hours away. You could possibly even commute!" I checked out the area through the lens of possibly living there when I went down for my interview. Seattle and Kirkland are not comparable to Vancouver in the slightest. Mostly the ghettos and rampant poverty, combined with the fundamental social differences between the countries. Didn't help…

Nobody who likes Williamsburg or Dumbo gets to have an opinion about cities.

Re: Leaving Google

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there are elections in the Vancouver area, you see people of all backgrounds and colors running for office. The same is decidedly not true in the US. How many election posters have you seen where the candidate is wearing a turban, or has a name that's difficult to pronounce for "native" Americans?

I've seen plenty of Chinese, Vietnamese, and Indians on posters in the Bay Area. (US representative for my district is Mike Honda) I have not seen many Arabs or Sikhs, but that may be more a function of population percentage and profession, than racism towards these groups, which exploded mostly after 9/11. People who run for office are usually lawyers, and there is a definite ethnic divide in professions. Moreover,…

I can understand why the confusion may arise due to both groups wearing fabric-based head garments, but most (though not all) Sikhs are of Indian origin.

Their cultural connection is much stronger to South Asia than to the Arab world. Also, many Sikhs do not not wear turbans, so to you or anyone else, they would just appear to be "Indians".

Re: Leaving Google

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon troll, Seattle is where people go to make money. Seattle's tech industry beats Vancouver any day.

Times are changing my friend. Who would I go work for in Seattle to "make money" (if that were actually my primary goal)? Amazon? In Vancouver now. Microsoft? In Vancouver now. Facebook? In Vancouver now. Startups? Vancouver has our share. Personally, if I were going to leave the country for a better tech industry, I'd fly right past Seattle and head further south. Sorry, but Seattle just doesn't make sense if you're…

I grew up in Victoria, and lived in Seattle for several months. Seattle was literally half the price and twice the wage in all aspects, you'd be stupid as a new grad not to go to Seattle if you grew up in Vancouver or Victoria.

I also found the people of Seattle pretty much identical to people in Vancouver. If you switched out a few street signs you wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference between the places.

Re: Leaving Google

#117
post #5

"Plus I find the Bay Area congested, racist, incestuous, and overpriced." I like this guy.

Whereas Vancouver is not? Vancouver is the most congested, racists, incestuous and overpriced market in Canada. Toronto might be more congested in parts, but it's much less racist and incestuous, and perhaps equally overpriced. Halifax might be more incestuous. Calgary might be more racists. Montreal might be more elitists, but he didn't mention that. Whereas, in defense of San Francisco, San Francisco has Oakland. I…

Downvoted for your blanket statements about an entire populace. Calgary might be more racist? Based on?

Most major Canadian cities are close to the US border, for three very important reasons: geography, temperature & economy. Geography: because a good part of the country is covered in Canadian Shield, making it very expensive to excavate land. Temperature: because the nicest temperatures are near the border. Economy: Transit to exporting is cheaper if you're near the border.

Why would Vancouver be around for Seattle? Wouldn't that be the other way around based on population? Also, if we're going to use US exceptionalism as the standard, then you should help explain Detroit vs. Windsor. Because Windsor isn't getting torn down neighbourhood by neighbourhood.

Re: Leaving Google

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little sad he didn't say anything about Seattle, only a couple hours from Vancouver and with sizable and thriving Google offices. It is also has "greens and greys and unfussily variegated people" -- clearly it's not Canada, but in general it would be a much less drastic transition!

Vancouver is a real city. Seattle is provincial, passive-aggressive, unfriendly to outsiders, and segregated. A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it. Californians who've moved there almost unanimously agree with my first sentence, and crack up at the latter. (Sadly, I lived in Seattle for 17 years. The Bay Area before that, and New York now.)

>A hick town with skyscrapers as I've often called it.

Something tells me that you've never met "hick".

Re: Leaving Google

#119
As someone who moved to the Bay Area from Vancouver, it definitely was a bit of a shock. In Vancouver you're very used to seeing white people work in low income jobs, and that just doesn't happen a lot here.

Calling the Bay Area congested, incestuous and overpriced compared to Vancouver is a little like the pot calling the kettle black, however. Yes, transit is a million times better in Vancouver. Yes, the cycling infrastructure is at least twice as good as SF and the peninsula. But try driving to or from North Vancouver during rush hour and you will experience some world class congestion.

The recent run-up in housing prices, particularly on the west side of Vancouver, where people have speculated in the housing market has left that part of the city half vacant. It's the same thing you see in London; wealthy foreigners come in, buy a place and use it for only a few weeks/months of the year. It totally wrecks communities.

That said, yeah, I still love Vancouver, but I love working in tech. If you're a software engineer, you really ought to be living in the Bay Area. There's no other place like it.

Re: Leaving Google

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Times are changing my friend. Who would I go work for in Seattle to "make money" (if that were actually my primary goal)? Amazon? In Vancouver now. Microsoft? In Vancouver now. Facebook? In Vancouver now. Startups? Vancouver has our share. Personally, if I were going to leave the country for a better tech industry, I'd fly right past Seattle and head further south. Sorry, but Seattle just doesn't make sense if you're…

I grew up in Vancouver, lived in Seattle for two years, and agree with all the digs about passive-aggression and the such. And while Vancouver's tech scene is rising, you should really stop by Seattle some time and see how wide the gap really is, and how far Vancouver has to go to even be within the same league as Seattle when it comes to tech employment. > "Amazon? In Vancouver now. Microsoft? In Vancouver now. Face…

The tech industry gets better the further south you go along the west coast

To a point.

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