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Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

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Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#131

Post by Tossrock »

lutusp wrote: post #128
zipppy wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2% of pilots _dying_ is still pretty high -- higher than I expected. Someone mentioned it being akin to motorcycling riding, but I can't imagine that 2% of motorcyclists die from it.

> Someone mentioned it being akin to motorcycling riding, but I can't imagine that 2% of motorcyclists die from it. The rates for motorcycle accidents and deaths is really very high: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety#Accident_rate... Quote: "According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in 2006, 13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles…

And still much less than 2%.

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#132

Post by wpietri »

nathanstitt wrote: post #118
sokoloff wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you factor in all risks (the "as experienced" rate), GA flight is about as dangerous per mile as riding motorcycles. I firmly believe that 2/3rds of the fatality risk in GA is pilot-controlled and readily avoidable: weather, fuel exhaustion and "ostentatious display" (buzzing, etc) are relatively easy to avoid with nothing more than basic knowledge and firm discipline. On a motorcycle, many risks are rider-control…

IFR rated pilot here that's been flying for ~ 10 years. I agree with you 100% on the risks being largely under the pilots control. However I also believe that there's something about aviation that attracts the type of people who are uniquely unsuited for it. Daredevils, non-detail minded, and just plain incompetent. When you read the NTSB reports and such it's just not pretty. Pilot after pilot runs out of fuel or ma…

Doing user studies and paying attention to my own behavior, I grow more and more aware how rare consistent, no-error performance of tasks is. Stupid mistakes now seem more the human norm than the exception.

What's especially sinister to me is how long it took me to really get that. And how much my self-perceived skill is more about my ability to recover from error than my ability to avoid error in the first place. Especially when it's over time periods long enough for fear to wear off.

I'd never take up flying, because I know my attention would wander during those long periods of apparent calm but actual risk.

Regarding why aviation attracts the wrong sort of people, if you haven't read about the Dunning-Kruger effect, I think it'll ring some bells for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#133

Post by vertex-four »

userulluipeste wrote: post #75
niekmaas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A private pilot license (PPL) does not allow for commercial flying (charging passengers). To charge passengers to pilot requires a commercial pilot license.

Well, these kind of problems have their own way of being solved. Look at uber.com - you would take your "buddy friend" you just get acquainted with over the Internet!

I would assume that the FAA is perceived to have a lot more power than a city's taxi licensing department. Especially given the amount of time that a pilot will have put into learning to fly, I doubt many would want to risk it.

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#134

Post by The_Fox »

lutusp wrote: post #11
jeiting wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be fantastically unlucky, by my research (I'm afraid I've lost the citation) the number of pilots who die in flying accidents is about 1/50. How many pilots did you know?

A reasonable number, but many of them were stunt pilots -- or thought they were stunt pilots. I didn't mean to create a false impression. Also remember I mentioned that was a 12-year period.

That reminds me of something I heard once- "there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots."

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#135

Post by jcoby »

mistercow wrote: post #69
ars wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume the actuators to actually control the plane. I doubt ultralights are fly by wire.

Oh, that makes sense, although I guess I'm a bit surprised that FBW isn't common with ultralights, given its advantages.

In the US an ultralight has to be under 254 pounds and does not require any training or licensing to fly. In most other countries an ultralight is more like the sport class in the US.

At 254 pounds you want light and simple. FBW requires actuators. And controllers. And sensors. And power. And then you have to double up everything for redundancy. You would easily eat up 50 lbs or more making a reliable FBW system and it would cost 3-4x what the entire aircraft cost.

Even with normal light aircraft a FBW system is both unneeded and overly complex. Cables and pulleys are extremely reliable. They are inspected every year (along with the engine and various other pieces of the aircraft).

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#136

Post by nathanstitt »

wpietri wrote: post #132
nathanstitt wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IFR rated pilot here that's been flying for ~ 10 years. I agree with you 100% on the risks being largely under the pilots control. However I also believe that there's something about aviation that attracts the type of people who are uniquely unsuited for it. Daredevils, non-detail minded, and just plain incompetent. When you read the NTSB reports and such it's just not pretty. Pilot after pilot runs out of fuel or ma…

Doing user studies and paying attention to my own behavior, I grow more and more aware how rare consistent, no-error performance of tasks is. Stupid mistakes now seem more the human norm than the exception. What's especially sinister to me is how long it took me to really get that. And how much my self-perceived skill is more about my ability to recover from error than my ability to avoid error in the first place. Es…

That's a great point.

As a programmer it's also taken me quite awhile to recognize that I'm not a perfect snowflake and am quite capable of writing code that contains horrendous bugs.

I've always recognized that while flying though, because I've always felt like a neophyte at it, and not a "real" pilot.

Statistically speaking, it's pretty safe to allow your attention to wander a bit while on a long uneventful flight. That's why there are auto-pilots. The real danger comes in whenever you're close to the ground or in bad weather.

Surprisingly the #1 thing you can do to avoid an accident is just make sure you have enough fuel. Which is a very low bar to clear.

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#137

Post by Spooky23 »

freerobby wrote: post #97
bdunbar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except you die if you screw up. That happens with boats, too. Perhaps not as often - boats don't fall out of the sky when they stop working - but it happens.

Planes don't really fall out of the sky either, especially modern commercial jets with high L/D ratios. There are some exceptions, e.g. fighter jets, but generally planes can glide down safely upon engine failure provided there is a nearby spot to land. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-to-drag_ratio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-to-drag_ratio

We're talking general aviation here. Small private planes crash frequently.

I live around Albany, NY. In the past 18 months, there have been at least 4 fatal crashes that I can recall as a casual newspaper reader. Usually it's related to tired/inexperienced pilots combined with some other factor (mechanical, weather, etc).

One that I remember as a kid growing up in farm country was a guy who had an engine failure. Like you said, he didn't just fall out of the sky... he tried to glide into a field, and just missed it. Wing clipped a tree.

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#138

Post by sokoloff »

nathanstitt wrote: post #136
wpietri wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing user studies and paying attention to my own behavior, I grow more and more aware how rare consistent, no-error performance of tasks is. Stupid mistakes now seem more the human norm than the exception. What's especially sinister to me is how long it took me to really get that. And how much my self-perceived skill is more about my ability to recover from error than my ability to avoid error in the first place. Es…

That's a great point. As a programmer it's also taken me quite awhile to recognize that I'm not a perfect snowflake and am quite capable of writing code that contains horrendous bugs. I've always recognized that while flying though, because I've always felt like a neophyte at it, and not a "real" pilot. Statistically speaking, it's pretty safe to allow your attention to wander a bit while on a long uneventful flight.…

Surprising, astonishing, disappointing, and sadly, it's absolutely true...

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#139

Post by jcoby »

lutusp wrote: post #2

It's important to say that the general aviation population has gotten much smaller over the last few decades. It was a lot more popular 25 years ago when I flew much more than I do now. A number of aircraft manufacturers have stopped building small general-aviation planes for a number of reasons including liability and a reduction in public interest. I started flying about 1980. By 1992, 12 years later, about half th…

The private pilot is a dying breed. Skyrocketing costs make it all but impossible for most people to get into. Even getting your private pilot's license often costs $8k-$10k. And then you are looking at $150/hr to fly a 20-30 year old C172.

These skyrocketing costs make it so the fleet ages and becomes less reliable. So people get out. Or they die because they can't fly enough to get experience or the aircraft has a problem because it isn't flown enough.

And costs rise further because there is no market. It's a downward spiral. And it seems that the FAA is completely happy with the situation.

I've been out on beautiful days (low 80s, calm, 10 mi vis) and the CTAF is all but dead. Even 5 years ago there would have been 2-3 in the pattern and I would have heard a steady stream of traffic around the other 5 airports in the same frequency.

Re: Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane

#140

Post by retroafroman »

jrs235 wrote: post #108

For those wondering how much it costs to get your private pilot's license... You'll need to study and pass a written examine so you'll have to either purchase self-study books or take a ground school class. (This is relatively cheap, a few hundred dollars.) You need to log 40 hours of flight training time. Depending on locale, anticipate paying $100-$150 per hour for a flight instructor and $100-$150 per hour for pla…

The FAA also created a new license class called 'Sport Pilot' about 10 years ago that only takes 20 hours of flight training, which makes it much easier and cheaper to get into flying [1]. However, this comes with limitations like only able to take one passenger, only able to fly during the day, in good weather, only in a small aircraft, etc.

[1] http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Regulatory-,-a-,-Certification-...

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