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I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

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Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#51

Post by martinald »

zura wrote: post #30

The sad fact is that while Russia keeps making active steps, EU only gets "concerned", but nothing more... It is time for EU to do some real actions (not sanctions...). They should propose some real alternative options, even for Yanukovich - maybe a full EU membership or something similar, bit more than just Association Agreement.

Ukraine is a country of 45 million people and has a nominal GDP of $3,400ish per capita. That's vastly lower than the EU average and would cause all sorts of problems trying to integrate it.

If it was Bosnia or something with a small population, it would be doable. It's political and economic suicide for the EU to offer full membership on a whim like this.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#52

Post by daliusd »

Aoyagi wrote: post #16

And again this is extremely one-sided. Propagandistic even. And it makes it to the top of HN. Again. "THE POLICE IS READY TO SHOOT". But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think. I tried to really dig into the affair, but it's too complicated with both sides corrupt (like it typically happens…

It is YouTube video to raise some emotions not article from The Economist.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#53

Post by memracom »

Aoyagi wrote: post #16

And again this is extremely one-sided. Propagandistic even. And it makes it to the top of HN. Again. "THE POLICE IS READY TO SHOOT". But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think. I tried to really dig into the affair, but it's too complicated with both sides corrupt (like it typically happens…

Over the last couple of months there is photo evidence of protestors with pistols and sniper rifles. Not to mention the bullets removed from wounded police officers. And who is to say that the gunshot victims were not shot by rivals in the protest camp? Lots of rhetoric and innuendo but very little actual proof beyond the individual incidents that you would find in the USA, Canada or any EU country. When was the last time that police in your country beat up a suspect?

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#54

Post by mtrimpe »

x0054 wrote: post #43
mtrimpe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU was ready to have Ukraine go through another one of their lengthy entry processes where over a period of years requirements are progressively put in place to enable joining the EU. The current protests erupted when one of the first steps along that path was openly scuttled by Russia applying a huge amount of financial leverage. It is true that only half of Ukraine wants to join the west, but it's also clear th…

It is NOT true that ONLY half of the population want's to join EU or at least get rid of Putin's influence. Majority of Ukraine wants this!

From what I've understood half geographically (which is indeed the majority of the population) wants to actually join the EU and the other half mostly just wants the corruption to stop.

Is that not correct?

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#57

Post by memracom »

sgift wrote: post #47
memracom wrote: post #39

This is a pure propaganda piece that shows nothing other than some skill in video editing and constructing a sound track. Think, people, think. Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and masks carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at th…

> Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and mass carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at the demonstration to shoot police officers? Depends: Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people with…

> Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people without reason?

They do that in Canada. I've lived here for 3 years and there have been several incidents in the press. Ukraine has no monopoly on this.

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#58

Post by memracom »

nhaehnle wrote: post #40
Aoyagi wrote: post #16

And again this is extremely one-sided. Propagandistic even. And it makes it to the top of HN. Again. "THE POLICE IS READY TO SHOOT". But she won't say that it's with rubber slugs or that the protesters are throwing molotovs and shooting fireworks (which can deal nasty damage). Rocks are implied, I think. I tried to really dig into the affair, but it's too complicated with both sides corrupt (like it typically happens…

Thank you for that. As a European, I would add that you really need to be aware that the country seems to be split along historical lines: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/24... It seems that Kiev, the capital, happens to be in a region that is dominated by Ukrainian-speaking people, who feel closer to (Western/Central) Europe than to Russia. Therefore, a lot of protests are happening in the…

Belgium was split along historical lines but they talked over their differences and found common ground. The result of that was the beginning of the European Union which is why Brussels, Belgium is the EU capital today.

So why can't the Ukrainians solve their problems the EU way?

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#59

Post by ckoepp »

emocakes wrote: post #6

Lets all forget about the US trying to manipulate the outcome of these riots, already deciding who will be in power. The only reason the US and by proxy, the EU cares about the Ukraine is so they can put another load of Patriot Missiles there; to protect Europe from Iran and North Korea of course, it has nothing to do with gaining a strategic advantage over Russia. The cold war never ended.

Patriot missiles in Ukraine to protect the US and EU from North Korea and Iran?!

Well, get back to your geography homework and have a look where the Ukraine is located...

Re: I Am A Ukrainian, This Needs To Go Viral

#60

Post by durakot »

This account is from the events in Kiev of January 22 and 23, but I recommend looking at it as a fairly objective look at how things look on the ground, as opposed to the sensationalism: http://zyalt.livejournal.com/984735.html

Obviously things have escalated now with many deaths, but these narratives of government thugs vs. brave people, or police vs. right wing elements, grow tiresome. This is not like Syria, or Occupy. It is a significant, representative portion of the population demonstrating against the government. Plenty of propaganda from both sides, though one should remember that the Ukrainian (and Russian) governments have much more experience with that than the opposition.

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