Visual Studio could be so much more for Microsoft. Why do they need a phone? Let them make Visual Studio cross platform and developers would come back to Windows as their base platform. All other IDE's pale in comparison. Too bad that advantage is being wasted as far as new developers go.
Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
51–60 of 235 posts
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#52C# and .NET get a bad rap for being created by Microsoft. But one thing that can't be ignored is how polished their development tools are. I absolutely love coding in Visual Studio.
It pains me if I am honest. Our CMS is built on .NET and it's like an uphill battle selling it as it's on IIS and it's .NET. I have played around with the idea of reworking it into an open source language and open source database but I would miss Visual Studio and the language a lot. I don't get all the hate?
I think it's less about not wanting to use Visual Studio and more about not wanting to have a Windows VM thrashing resources. I've worked with teams that have migrated to ServiceStack just to avoid running Windows.
Assuming that running Windows is a non-issue, the parts that really, really bug me are:
- Background operations suddenly become foreground operations that stall the IDE with a dialog saying "A background operation is taking too long."
- Misclicks spinning off long background tasks that stall the IDE.
- Automatic refactoring/code analysis that will stall the IDE.
- Incredibly aggressive automatic reformatting.
- The Microsoft Account agenda. VS2013 wants me to sign-in with my Microsoft account on so many different occasions: settings sync, Azure, Windows Developer account registration, auth refresh, etc... which wouldn't be so bad, but I'm signed in via Windows 8 already, adding insult to injury.Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not .NET, .NET is a fantastic framework. The problem here is you're not just selling IIS and .NET, you're trying to sell the entire Microsoft ecosystem. There are so many MS components that just don't work on the Open Source world. Microsoft makes most of its money with its business products, so it's not cheap. Some companies just simply don't want to pay the Microsoft premium.
.NET is a framework. This is how the stack looks like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DotNet.svg .
Sorry, I updated my comment.
I also should have mentioned Mono, but that's a different topic.
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
s/10/20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft#Hist...
don't forget this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_compet...
also don't forget the gazillions of viruses in that era. Business networks paralysed by out of control worms on the internet. Good times.
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#55C# and .NET get a bad rap for being created by Microsoft. But one thing that can't be ignored is how polished their development tools are. I absolutely love coding in Visual Studio.
Personally, it's because Microsoft development locks you in, and costs a lot of money. The OS costs money, the server OS costs money, the database costs money, the IDE costs money, everything costs money, and you have to use it, for the life of your app. To many young developers these days, and IIS server is the thing your company keeps in the closet to some sluggish legacy monstrosity which has been replaced for yea…
It's not very true that you're locked into anything anymore. See Mono, Xamarin, Sharpdevelop, etc.
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#56C# and .NET get a bad rap for being created by Microsoft. But one thing that can't be ignored is how polished their development tools are. I absolutely love coding in Visual Studio.
Personally, it's because Microsoft development locks you in, and costs a lot of money. The OS costs money, the server OS costs money, the database costs money, the IDE costs money, everything costs money, and you have to use it, for the life of your app. To many young developers these days, and IIS server is the thing your company keeps in the closet to some sluggish legacy monstrosity which has been replaced for yea…
It is a lock in (most technology does lock you into certain dependencies) and it does cost money. But, it's all so easy to use now / saves you lots of time. You can roll out anything using PowerShell these days. Or just copy VMs with OS/IIS/SQL already set-up.
Deploying everything can be one-click. VS even has git integration now.
The old IIS is like you describe. But, the latest IIS is fast and easy.
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd guess it's because a lot of techies remember how 10 years ago MS exploited their monopoly to force their products onto the entire world? fortunately those days are over and they've become mostly irrelevant, but everyone knows that given half a chance they'd do it again...
> fortunately those days are over and they've become mostly irrelevant, but everyone knows that given half a chance they'd do it again... Everyone I know for the most part types their documents in Microsoft Word on Windows computers. Sure, they got smartphones and tablets for the media consumption and facebook, but they don't even know an alternative "big boy" OS exists. They think Windows == computers. Which I think…
Maybe ten years ago I would have said that, but these days it seems they are typing their "documents" into an email composer or a website form (be it a frontend for blogger, wiki, wordpress, etc).
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
It pains me if I am honest. Our CMS is built on .NET and it's like an uphill battle selling it as it's on IIS and it's .NET. I have played around with the idea of reworking it into an open source language and open source database but I would miss Visual Studio and the language a lot. I don't get all the hate?
I have done a lot of Java, Scala, etc. IntelliJ & Eclipse are both wonderful IDEs in their own right. A lot of things like ReSharper were in those IDEs before Jetbrains (maker of IntelliJ) made the plugin for VS. After trying VS for a couple of projects I found it completely baffling and backwards. And I don't think this is because VS is bad, but because the way I approach software is completely different. I want to…
It sounds like you just don't know Windows/VS/IIS as well as you know the other stacks which is entirely understandable since I'm guessing you don't work with them very often.
For future reference you can compile VS projects from the command line if you want using MSBuild, that's all building in VS does. As far as IIS is concerned you can maintain all it's configuration via config files so an experienced Windows admin could have 1000's Windows servers up by lunch too. They'd probably take all day to get a Linux server up though.
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#59C# and .NET get a bad rap for being created by Microsoft. But one thing that can't be ignored is how polished their development tools are. I absolutely love coding in Visual Studio.
Personally, it's because Microsoft development locks you in, and costs a lot of money. The OS costs money, the server OS costs money, the database costs money, the IDE costs money, everything costs money, and you have to use it, for the life of your app. To many young developers these days, and IIS server is the thing your company keeps in the closet to some sluggish legacy monstrosity which has been replaced for yea…
Moreover, their business unit's licensing/pricing team are chasing your code forever to suck more margins from its use.
While developing with MS technologies, you must accompany any code, tests and documentation with a "My License" folder with "licensing.cs" files to calculate, the implied licensing costs of each piece of code you develop along with all required MS components down to the metal. Finally, you must make sure the relevant "My License/licXX.cs" gets updated with changing licensing policies.
Next to your developers, designers you must staff an MS certified licensing specialist, or for larger projects a License team with a director level position to analyze, plan, design, test, negotiate and pay licensing costs.
Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#
#60If for nothing else - it shows MSFT's commitment to the language, to the platform and to the framework.
No, it shows MSFT's commitment to future revenue and profit. If they were really committed to the language, they would open-source it.
They are committed to the language because it makes them profit, yes. What did you expect from a company? A bunch of academics who are committed the language on its theoretical merits alone, even if it causes the company to hemorrhage money?
The kind of "commitment" that you refer to is one that results in perhaps wider acceptance (perhaps not), but /definitely/ will annihilate their existing strategy (lock-in).