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HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

insanecoding.blogspot.com

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Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#31

Post by nousernamesleft »

frou_dh wrote: post #21
Pacabel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out flaws is a perfectly valid and useful activity, especially when there is significant room for improvement, like in this case.

When it's not clear that someone who can do something about it is even present, it's usually just an "in" to post a low-value comment. Zap all the thousands of aggregator comments complaining about fonts/background-colours and nothing of value would be lost.

It is still information, which can be useful. For example, I am working on a redesign of a website where they are insisting on making the text unreadably small because "it looks like geocities" if they text is normal. If these kinds of people repeatedly see people complaining about small text, they will eventually get a clue and the web will have fewer unreadable sites.

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#32

Post by hmsimha »

nemetroid wrote: post #28
hobohacker wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I should out myself as a Chromium HTTP stack maintainer (since 2009, so this behavior predates me). One might consider me a domain expert here. I participate in IETF HTTPbis for the HTTP/2 work as the primary Chromium representative. I am not involved with the RFC 2616 revision work as that's tough, thankless work, that thank god we have Julian Reschke and Roy Fielding working on. As far as I'm concerned, I o…

So basically the entire premise of the article, that > existing practice today is that 301, 303, and 307 are used correctly pretty much everywhere is flat out wrong. I guess that's a nicer and more probable resolution than "standards people suck!".

From the rest of the article, I can only assume it means 'correctly' in the sense of the reality arrived at by both user agents and servers after years of standards-flouting, which is now 'correct' if unspecified behavior.

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#34

Post by kalleboo »

rlongstaff wrote: post #3
hk__2 wrote: post #2

Side note: don’t use serif fonts such as Georgia with small characters. I changed the font to Helvetica and the readability was much better.

Both the font size and colour scheme on that page hurt my eyes.

Safari Reader mode to the rescue...

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#35

Post by Lukasa »

hobohacker wrote: post #23
6cxs2hd6 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're well-marinated in standards bodies, and that's a good thing -- it's tough, often thankless work that someone needs to do. For the rest of us, the language from OP sure sounds like it's saying, "yeah do whatevs with 301, we give up". People often read RFCs in a hurry. Wouldn't this be a great place to use the a "SHOULD NOT" (change the request method)? If you're saying "MUST NOT" would be bad bec…

I guess I should out myself as a Chromium HTTP stack maintainer (since 2009, so this behavior predates me). One might consider me a domain expert here. I participate in IETF HTTPbis for the HTTP/2 work as the primary Chromium representative. I am not involved with the RFC 2616 revision work as that's tough, thankless work, that thank god we have Julian Reschke and Roy Fielding working on. As far as I'm concerned, I o…

You're entirely right, and it's not just browsers. Your statement about 'user agents' was the better one. Consider also curl (http://curl.haxx.se/docs/manpage.html#-L) (and presumably libcurl), Python's requests (https://github.com/kennethreitz/requests/blob/master/request...) library, Python's urllib.request (http://docs.python.org/3.3/library/urllib.request.html#urlli...) (what used to be urllib2), the list goes on. I don't believe I've ever seen a HTTP client library that doesn't do 301 method conversion.

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#36

Post by ZoFreX »

frou_dh wrote: post #21
Pacabel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out flaws is a perfectly valid and useful activity, especially when there is significant room for improvement, like in this case.

When it's not clear that someone who can do something about it is even present, it's usually just an "in" to post a low-value comment. Zap all the thousands of aggregator comments complaining about fonts/background-colours and nothing of value would be lost.

> Zap all the thousands of aggregator comments complaining about fonts/background-colours and nothing of value would be lost.

Sure, if you don't have a visual impairment. I do, and even though it's a very mild one, if one in 100 blog posts submitted to HN consider changing their colour scheme due to people complaining about it I would say it is worth it. And frequently I do see people changing their colour schemes based on HN feedback.

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#37

Post by e98cuenc »

lightcatcher wrote: post #6

Can anyone here provide any explanation of how the changes in HTTP2 might not be idiotic? The changes discussed in the post just seem dumb to me, but I assume there has to be some reasoning behind them.

The author of this article is wrong assuming 301 is used as it is defined by existing standards.

HTTP2 redefines 301 to match current practice (permanent redirect that changes from POST to GET), and defines a new 308 to try again to get a permanent redirect that doesn't change the method.

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#38

Post by mattgreenrocks »

derefr wrote: post #16
lightcatcher wrote: post #6

Can anyone here provide any explanation of how the changes in HTTP2 might not be idiotic? The changes discussed in the post just seem dumb to me, but I assume there has to be some reasoning behind them.

Alright, think of it this way. People use HTTP for two things these days: 1. Its originally-stated purpose--an application-layer protocol that allows web browsers to retrive hypermedia documents from web servers. In this usage, HTTP replaced Gopher+FTP. 2. A transport-layer protocol , with features such as identified sub-flows (requests in a pipelined keepalive connection, websockets, etc.), several usefully-differen…

> Eventually, HTTP may be the only transport-layer protocol.

Worse is better strikes again!

No, seriously; this is terrifying.

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#39

Post by brokenparser »

rcruzeiro wrote: post #8
rlongstaff wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the font size and colour scheme on that page hurt my eyes.

Just add this custom css to the page and it should be much more legible: body { background: white; color: black; line-height: 27px; } #outer-wrapper { font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 11pt; }

That will only work on Mac OS X. Just use "font-family: sans-serif", it'll look fine on any system.

Re: HTTP 308 Incompetence Expected

#40

Post by frou_dh »

ZoFreX wrote: post #36
frou_dh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it's not clear that someone who can do something about it is even present, it's usually just an "in" to post a low-value comment. Zap all the thousands of aggregator comments complaining about fonts/background-colours and nothing of value would be lost.

> Zap all the thousands of aggregator comments complaining about fonts/background-colours and nothing of value would be lost. Sure, if you don't have a visual impairment. I do, and even though it's a very mild one, if one in 100 blog posts submitted to HN consider changing their colour scheme due to people complaining about it I would say it is worth it. And frequently I do see people changing their colour schemes ba…

The point is: take it to the author, not those standing around you on the bus.
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