Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that's really how it works then my gut instinct tells me it's wrong. We shouldn't rely on any form of currency exchange for negotiating the movement of web traffic, otherwise we risk messing with net neutrality. Bandwidth should be balanced by tracking load, not by currency. Cryptocurrencies could prove useful as a form of identity on the network, a secure ID token that isn't traded but does allow nodes to recogni…
Yes, right. Not currency, identity. The bitcoin approach is used to uniquely identify specific transactions for a node's traffic.
Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
61–70 of 83 posts
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
mesh/overlay stuff has been developed for decades, we even have lists of projects: http://redecentralize.org/interviews/ https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet Why don't we work more together?
Very very good point. My research group and ISP federation tries to work together with all of these 100+ initiatives, but sadly, a large fraction suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome or even worse, the "never read any scientific papers that solved this many years ago" syndrome. (See my profile).
I'm interested in mesh networking and its relation to the physical layer. As a (time deficient) hobby, I've been noodling on a bit of free space optics for a number of years. In my day job, I design physical layer radio infrastructure for data/voice networks.
(I just realised that "noodling" probably doesn't make sense outside Au/NZ. It comes from the practice of picking though mine tailings for opals, meaning: to toil in an ad hoc manner over a long period of time.)
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
One would imagine that the whole point of working with a protocol similar to bitcoin is that this is not possible: you can't fork the network and rejoin at a later time; that would be modeled as a blockchain fork, and your chain would be shorter than the main chain when you tried to rejoin the rest of the peers and your history would be erased.
Sure, but that doesn't make any sense in the context of a network. You're saying that if my link goes down, or if my neighborhoods link goes own ... or if my city link goes down ... I can never rejoin the network ? Or perhaps I can never spend my traffic currency ? Of course the links will go down all the time and various (large and small) segments of the network will be "islands" from time to time (as parts of the I…
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#64I'd be more interested in a software that hosts data in a mesh network fashion rather than talk about zombie apocalypse, SOPA/PIPA and other political craze. And why does this thing talk so much about hardware anyways ? Maybe the goal is to get funding to make that kind of project happen, but I don't think any engineer will like to get involved into a project than explicitely express political opinions and concerns.…
You mean like MaidSafe? http://maidsafe.net/ As Lawrence Lessig said, "code is law". We've seen it before. Governments are usually too behind in understanding what's going on. Sometimes it helps, like with bittorent and TPB, while other times it hurts us, like with DRM being able to lock stuff that shouldn't actually be locked according to the law, but the DRM makers are basically making their own laws through code,…
Is Maidsafe another Freenet?
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#652) The last thing we want to do is reinvent the wheel
3) We do not bring any novelty to either mesh routing or p2p payment systems. We only combined the two to create a mesh protocol with a built-in monetary incentive
4) The actual purpose of the monetary incentive is to get corporations capable of installing fiber links interested; we do understand it is impossible to create a global wireless mesh network.
5) Tunnel nodes are needed until a stable (fiber) infrastructure is built to replace them
6) It is always possible for other mesh network projects to implement the payment system into their protocols; we did not discover fire, we only proposed a solution to what we believe to be the main obstacle to widespread adoption of mesh networks; i.e. lack of incentive.
7) There are no political motivations for the project. Demanding a secure and spying-free communication channel is not anarchism. It is only the natural evolution of the internet. AFAIK eavesdropping is not just confined to the government/nsa. Even small ISPs possess the ability to spy on their clients. Also note that there are countries outside the US that have completely different concerns in regards to internet laws and regulations.
8) We understand there may be serious flaws in the theory at it's current state which is why we're teaming up with industry experts to refine and improve it.
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#66I'm no expert on mesh networks so maybe someone can tell me - how would a mesh network connect Los Angeles and Las Vegas? Or San Francisco to Salt Lake City? Given the populations on both ends, I assume you'd need more bandwidth than you could get from wifi routers with pringles can antennas. I assume the companies who own long distance fiber have to do what the government says, as they need government permission to…
I don't think we have the technology today make a "global mesh network". We need new Wi-Fi technologies and products to appear, and I think they will over the next 10 years or so. We need to get the Wi-Fi Alliance to create new Wi-Fi standards for longer ranges, too, which would make this easier. It would also help commercial companies, especially if they want to disrupt wireless telcos (such as Google and Microsoft,…
[1] http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Solar-Powe... [2] http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/08/new-9-hour-solar-pow...
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#67To clear some things up: 1) The theory itself is a WIP. We only published in the hopes of getting reviews, comments and ideas from the community 2) The last thing we want to do is reinvent the wheel 3) We do not bring any novelty to either mesh routing or p2p payment systems. We only combined the two to create a mesh protocol with a built-in monetary incentive 4) The actual purpose of the monetary incentive is to get…
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#68To clear some things up: 1) The theory itself is a WIP. We only published in the hopes of getting reviews, comments and ideas from the community 2) The last thing we want to do is reinvent the wheel 3) We do not bring any novelty to either mesh routing or p2p payment systems. We only combined the two to create a mesh protocol with a built-in monetary incentive 4) The actual purpose of the monetary incentive is to get…
Meshnet has been doing this for some time: https://projectmeshnet.org/ . There are also other groups of people fighting for the same thing in Germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freifunk
Meshnet doesn't have the incentive (the actual only thing we're contributing to mesh networking)
If we could apply our payment strategy to any of the existing protocols we would have done it. Also, the fact that we have incentive means we could add special nodes; which means we can solve some of the issues that other protocols suffer from more easily. Instead of relying on distributed hash tables for example (a layer of complexity), why not dedicate a special node for lookup queries (PLN). That and we don't mind adopting a completely different approach for the routing protocol. This is why we're asking for the help of the community.
Please read the paper.
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Very very good point. My research group and ISP federation tries to work together with all of these 100+ initiatives, but sadly, a large fraction suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome or even worse, the "never read any scientific papers that solved this many years ago" syndrome. (See my profile).
I read your profile, and looked though the websites that it mentioned, but I'm not really any clearer on the connection to mesh networking. Do you mind giving a summary? I genuinely am interested. I'm interested in mesh networking and its relation to the physical layer. As a (time deficient) hobby, I've been noodling on a bit of free space optics for a number of years. In my day job, I design physical layer radio inf…
Our hardware switches are to build true mesh networks at hardware encrypted linespeeds up to 800 Gbps (Q1 2014).
Currently, most ISP and end-user routers and switches are set up behind NAT and with default routes in an hierarchical star topology, all pointed (slaved) to the central ISP. Only that ISP has true internet that they buy or peer with other ISP's and the top tier 1 global internet backbones. None of these users, worldwide 99.9% or more, can be considered to be in a mesh network. This is why the [No Such Agency] and governments only need to copy or deep packet inspect at a few points to see most worldwide internet traffic. Most of that traffic is not encrypted at one end, like the ISP or website side you are using. Peer to peer traffic is not yet using strong encryption or is not anonymous. Except Tor tunnels are, but that is slow and is under attack from the NSA and many national firewalls. Open Libernet only proposes to incentivize such a tor-like tunnel system, but do not claim Tor strength anonymity or security. BTW, I exchanged email with the Open Libernet authors, they are computer scientist with master degrees from Beirut.
Our system we designed over the last 20 years is based on a home switch with 8 ports at 1 to 3 Gbps, either gigabit copper, wifi or optical (or any connection including your radio and free space optics) would connect you to neighbors to the left, right, behind you, before you and wireless, at $50 mass produced ($200 for 8 ports at 10G). More importantly, it is free and open source hardware based on our own free and open source manycore microprocessors with free and open source software based on the new open openflow standards, so hackers, scientist and anyone can trust the encryption at linespeeds in these mesh switches and routers by constantly scrutinizing . The protocol we are making is similar to TOR, but always at linespeed. If you're house injects traffic, it is replacing less critical encrypted bittorrent or dummy traffic, in such a way that no change in bandwidth or content can be detected, providing you with even better anonymity than Tor does. It brings anonymous bittorrent and voice/email/skype-like traffic. The 60 manycore processor must be always on so your home router will pass on traffic from you neighbors in trade for them passing on your traffic. This allows the switch/router to also function as (web)server. One of the services will be an anonymous distributed cloud service, based on free cores and any terabyte harddisks you share by connecting to the switch. Most importantly, although you can run Unix/linux on the some cores, the switch and openflow protocols do not. This allows hardware protection of the e-capabilities that guard the free and open source encryption algorithms, so it is [No Such Agency] strength security. Linux, Intel and Arm processors has to many unknown security flaws and known backdoors and are not truly open hardware and software. We should be much more secure than Tor or Freedombox this way, although we do run these free software systems as well.
So now you have a secure anonymous free and open source mesh network that is running at hardware speeds, preferably over optical fibers, within your neighborhoods and not in the hand of any company or government you can not trust. You can at any time check the software and hardware if it still can be trusted. Your neighbors are by default incentivized (forced by social peer pressure) to also get a mesh router and more importantly, to keep it always on. By adding and sharing harddisks, they gain a shared petabyte anonymous cloud storage. By having a core surplus in the encrypting switch, the are further paying for the shared cloud services running distributed on their home switches/server. By using our built-in manycore parallelism, they are incentivized further to not rely on Linux encryption, but our microcode/bytecode based encryption that has no backdoors and can be constantly be checked for it. So mesh every aspect, not just the tunnels. Incentivize everyone, so they must peer with each other to gain high speed at zero or lowest cost. Keep it out of the control of a single provider, so it will remain free and open, right up to the continental crossing points and beyond. It must be crowd funded, by the richest most powerful group on the planet, we the people who should hold these anonymity, privacy and mesh peering/sharing truths to be self evident. I hope I made it clear you should mesh at every level and provide all that without end-users installing a single thing. They should not want to turn of the devices, ever. So make it very low power.
Next these neighborhoods need to have a mesh network with each other, city to city. So they should share the cost of private fibers between cities, also running the same strength encryption as the home routers but now at terabits speeds per fiber. They need to hook up through submarine cables with other continents, again with the same free and open hardware switches running at multiple terabits. That is why we design and built the entire system from scratch with the latest and best hardware, software and encryption systems science can come up with. At the internet exchanges, this local or global mesh network also peers with the current internet, where you will loose some or all encryption if you do not terminate with peers using the same mesh protocols or travel thru big companies or government networks. This is why we not just built mesh networks locally and have them financed and owned by the users themselves, but also provide community owned inter-city and inter-continental mesh fiber nets that do not fall under government laws or investor control.
We welcome developers, scientist, Phd students and HN type co-founders to work with or for us to build out this system to regain anonymity and privacy while providing gigabit+ speeds. We welcome ISP's and communities to use our open hardware and backbone at cost.
Edited for errors.
Re: Open Libernet: a Bitcoin-based fully encrypted mesh networking protocol
#70I don't like that they use misleading information to exaggerate the problems of the current Internet: > One such limitation is the IPv4 protocol. With a 32 bit IP Address, it is only inevitable that the address pool will be exhausted (as it almost has) as the internet keeps on expanding. This is true, but they completely ignore the advance of IPv6.