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Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

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Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#21
post #16
post #9

I have a fair bit of experience with modafinil/adronafinil, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I'm not recommending trying them without docter's prescription, of course. It helped me greatly to stay up longer, to sleep less, and to concentrate better. However, those effects get much weaker over time: the sleep effects for me were less clear after 1-2 months, the concentration after weeks. Side effects…

How do you get that doctor's prescription in the US?

FYI: I would strongly suggest getting a RX for Modafinil (Provigil) and not Nuvigil (Amodifinil). Nuvigil is very expensive and my insurance company required a whole battery of additional tests before they paid for it. I believe Modafinil is now generic so I imagine they care much less.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#24
post #13

What about Nicotine? Back in college and for a few years afterward, I used to put in a big fat dip (or chew) for all/late-nighters to help me buckle down, focus, and stay alert. I stopped for all the standard health reasons, but I find that caffeine is only about 2/3 as good.

Using nicotine gum, you can avoid the typical health hazards of tobacco products. I personally found that caffeine wasn't comparable to nicotine, the former just keeps me awake, while the latter can keep me focused and motivated for several hours.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#25
post #13

What about Nicotine? Back in college and for a few years afterward, I used to put in a big fat dip (or chew) for all/late-nighters to help me buckle down, focus, and stay alert. I stopped for all the standard health reasons, but I find that caffeine is only about 2/3 as good.

Maybe you find caffeine 2/3 as good because it's not as addictive as nicotine.

Nicotine isn't any more addictive than caffeine when you control for route of administration.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get that doctor's prescription in the US?

You need to be diagnosed with narcolepsy or shift-work syndrome to get prescribed modafinil in the US.

You don't need to be diagnosed with anything; those are just the approved uses. It can be prescribed off-label for nearly anything your doctor wants.

At one point they pitched it to the FDA as a cure for jet lag (which it arguably is) but the FDA didn't buy "jet lag" as a legitimate medical problem.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#27

What I find interesting is the fact that modafinil and caffeine ranked almost the same. I've always thought it would be interesting to try modafinil because of the widely claimed cognitive benefits and how it has less drawbacks than caffeine, but if it ranks essentially the same as caffeine, there's really no point to trying it that I can see. Caffeine doesn't really do that much to be honest. It seems as though none…

The difference between caffeine and modafinil come down to two things for me - - length of effect (caffeine seems to pick me up for had ran hour to an hour with a 30 min lead time - vs 12 hours with modafinil with a 45-1hr lead time) - side effects (if I am really tired and have to get a big day out, I might end up havering somewhere between 6-12 'doses' of coffee. Cf. 200 mg modafinil- by 3/4 through the day on the caffeine track I am jittery, have a noticeable essential tremor, my eyes are gritty - all this vs nothing on modafinil- nothing for me at least)

Few notes: Modafinil was a massive productivity booster while I was at uni. I would occasionally do a 36 hour period of solid study or work or whatever to cover a whole bunch of content and take up to 600mg modafinil durin this period, sometimes followed by a normal 8 hr sleep, then repeat. It was wonderful; I covered huge sections of my curriculum efficiently. The only side effect I have ever really felt from modafinil is a slight bit of 'coke mouth' when taking a high dose, and a minor bit of jaw clenching a la MDMA at the high doses as well.

Now I use only when work is very busy and I have been stupid with my sleep, 100mg mane for a couple of the days of the week seems to work very well although I am not an 'every day' doser and always prefer to be around 36 hours from my last dose if I am going to drink or take any other substances (I find I don't get the sensation of drunk if still on modafinil)

Edit: to more directly respond to your post, as opposed to ramble, you note that caffeine doesn't do that much to your mental capacity. Modafinil doesn't really either. The studies that have looked at mental capacity, creativity etc whilst under modafinil cf. amphetamines cf. placebo have all shown decreasing returns for people of normal or high baseline cognitive function. Modafinil is not going to make you smarter. But if you take it in the right environment, it can make you a lot more productive

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to hear your general thoughts on Modafinil. One of the things they say is that it has minor side-effects and that tolerance builds up really slow, if at all, in comparison. What's your take on it, empirically?

First a warning, because I've seen many misconceptions: Modafinil is not a sleep replacement. Especially not long-term. Do not use it that way. Its anti-sleep property is that it suppresses many parts of the urge to sleep. It does not provide any of the effects sleep provides. -- Well, I've always had issues with sleep: I have an 25 hour circadian rythm, so before modafinil I often just let it run and wake up an hour…

I recall reading that unusually-timed melatonin supplementation worked for at least one person.

From HPMOR notes:

>Around a year ago, some friends of mine cofounded MetaMed, intended to provide high-grade analysis of the medical literature for people with solution-resistant medical problems. (I.e. their people know Bayesian statistics and don’t automatically believe every paper that claims to be ‘statistically significant’ – in a world where only 20-30% of studies replicate, they not only search the literature, but try to figure out what’s actually true.) MetaMed offered to demonstrate by tackling the problem of my ever-advancing sleep cycle.

Here’s some of the things I’ve previously tried:

    Taking low-dose melatonin 1-2 hours before bedtime
    Using timed-release melatonin
    Installing red lights (blue light tells your brain not to start making melatonin)
    Using blue-blocking sunglasses after sunset
    Wearing earplugs
    Using a sleep mask
    Watching the sunrise
    Watching the sunset
    Blocking out all light from the windows in my bedroom using aluminum foil, then lining the door-edges with foam to prevent light from slipping in the cracks, so I wouldn’t have to use a sleep mask
    Spending a total of ~$2200 on three different mattresses (I cannot afford the high-end stuff, so I tried several mid-end ones)
    Trying 4 different pillows, including memory foam, and finally settling on a folded picnic blanket stuffed into a pillowcase (everything else was too thick)
    Putting 2 humidifiers in my room, a warm humidifier and a cold humidifier, in case dryness was causing my nose to stuff up and thereby diminish sleep quality
    Buying an auto-adjusting CPAP machine for $650 off Craigslist in case I had sleep apnea.  ($650 is half the price of the sleep study required to determine if you need a CPAP machine.)
    Taking modafinil and R-modafinil.
    Buying a gradual-light-intensity-increasing, sun alarm clock for ~$150
Not all of this was futile – I kept the darkened room, the humidifiers, the red lights, the earplugs, and one of the mattresses; and continued taking the low-dose and time-release melatonin. But that didn’t prevent my sleep cycle from advancing 3 hours per week (until my bedtime was after sunrise, whereupon I would lose several days to staying awake until sunset, after which my sleep cycle began slowly advancing again).

MetaMed produced a long summary of extant research on non-24 sleep disorder, which I skimmed, and concluded by saying that – based on how the nadir of body temperature varies for people with non-24 sleep disorder and what this implied about my circadian rhythm – their best suggestion, although it had little or no clinical backing, was that I should take my low-dose melatonin 5-7 hours before bedtime, instead of 1-2 hours, a recommendation which I’d never heard anywhere before.

And it worked.

I can’t #&$ing believe that #$%ing worked.

(EDIT in response to reader questions: ”Low-dose” melatonin is 200microgram (mcg) = 0.2 mg. Currently I’m taking 0.2mg 5.5hr in advance, and taking 1mg timed-release just before closing my eyes to sleep. However, I worked up to that over time – I started out just taking 0.3mg total, and I would recommend to anyone else that they start at 0.2mg.)

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#29
post #15
post #9

I have a fair bit of experience with modafinil/adronafinil, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I'm not recommending trying them without docter's prescription, of course. It helped me greatly to stay up longer, to sleep less, and to concentrate better. However, those effects get much weaker over time: the sleep effects for me were less clear after 1-2 months, the concentration after weeks. Side effects…

Would love to hear your general thoughts on Modafinil. One of the things they say is that it has minor side-effects and that tolerance builds up really slow, if at all, in comparison. What's your take on it, empirically?

It's a very subjective question. Modafinil makes me feel Not Tired. That's pretty much it. Not amped up, not hyper focused, just very awake. If you're having trouble focusing because your tired then this is a huge improvement. But I don't think it's much better than just being actually well rested.

Tolerance didn't seem like a huge issue, but I also wasn't taking it every day.

Re: Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

#30

The definition of nootropics used here excludes them (too many adverse health effects), but I wonder how the drugs on this list compare to e.g. amphetamines in terms of pro-productivity effects.

Amphetamines are certainly more dangerous. They actually make you feel good/euphoric. Modafinil just makes you feel awake.

I've heard people complain that amphetamines increase focus at the expense of creativity.

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