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Why we love Mozilla Persona

blog.zonino.co.uk

161–164 of 164 posts

Re: Why we love Mozilla Persona

#161
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As JavaScript is basically a required feature on the web these days, who cares? People who don't live in a fantasy bubble world where that is true? "Hey, just throw away 1% of your potential user base for no reason" isn't a very compelling sales pitch.

Depends... if it takes 20% of your time to make your site work for 1% of your potential users who have a feature disabled, I say forget it. The caveat to this rule is, of course, if you have a site that is very heavily trafficked.

That's an arbitrary and useless guideline, using made up numbers. If losing 1% of your potential users costs $100k in lost sales a year, and 20% of my time costs $20k, then spending that 20% time seems like a pretty good idea.

Re: Why we love Mozilla Persona

#162

But, this doesn't solve the issue that you're still trusting someone else with your secret (your password). We need to move towards protocols like SRP[0] in general so that no matter where I'm logging in, noöne has my password. [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Remote_Password_protocol EDIT: As ubernostrum points out, Persona is solving a different problem than SRP does. However, one of the reasons different i…

this doesn't solve the issue that you're still trusting someone else with your secret (your password) If you run your own identity provider, you are only trusting yourself with your secret. Also, nothing about Persona requires password-based authentication -- you can use any mechanism you like to authenticate to your identity provider.

> If you run your own identity provider, you are only trusting yourself with your secret.

And the service I run the identity provider on. And the janitors they hire. And the legal jurisdiction it resides in. And the people (voters, oligarchs or dictators) who control that legal jurisdiction.

A secure log-in system does not require any secret which leaves my immediate personal control. This is not rocket science, and is not difficult.

My laptop browser should have an internal secret key; I should be able to get an account on a site with a site-specific key; I should be able to authorise a site-specific key on my desktop to access the same site. Heck, I should be able to connect from a public computer temporarily, and authorise the same usage with my phone. No passwords or long-term shared secrets required. If my laptop, phone or desktop is stolen I should be able to, with some inconvenience, kill the access for that device and only that device.

None of this is rocket science. It's all very possible, and the UI could (I think) be quite elegant. In part, I blame X.509 and the CA mafia for making it so tough: it was in their interest to have a rigid global hierarchy rather than a free-flowing ecosystem; it was in their interest to make certificate minting expensive rather than free (never mind that the root of any certificate hierarchy could still cost...); it was in their interest to tie identity and authorisation, which simply doesn't make sense.

One of these days I really do need to brush off SPKI, clean it up and try to push it as a solution. The guys who designed it thought long and hard about identity and authorisation, and they came up with some damned smart solutions.

Re: Why we love Mozilla Persona

#163
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends... if it takes 20% of your time to make your site work for 1% of your potential users who have a feature disabled, I say forget it. The caveat to this rule is, of course, if you have a site that is very heavily trafficked.

That's an arbitrary and useless guideline, using made up numbers. If losing 1% of your potential users costs $100k in lost sales a year, and 20% of my time costs $20k, then spending that 20% time seems like a pretty good idea.

See listed caveat. If 1% of your users are netting you 100k, your site is likely heavily trafficked.

Re: Why we love Mozilla Persona

#164
post #68

I really like the idea of Persona, and it's very easy to integrate with your own site. However, it's still a bit unreliable. For example, clicking on the zonino login button just opened a mostly-blank page for me (white on the left, light grey on the right, with a pointy arrow in the middle; a bar at the bottom says "Mozilla Person...", but no way to log in. If I do "F10 -> View -> Page Style -> No Style" I see vario…

Do you use NoScript? Persona is heavily Javascript-reliant.

OK, I finally figured this out. The persona tab is replacing the web-page. So, to log in:

1. open two copies of the page

2. click the "Sign In" button on both

3. a working Persona sign in appears in the first tab

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