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Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

wikichen.is

21–30 of 59 posts

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#21

Related but an off-shoot question, people who are "settled down," in your late 20's/30's/40's/50's/60's, have families and various obligations, how do you deal with loneliness? As someone who is on the precipice of turning 30 (27 currently), speaking strictly for myself - I've found that loneliness for me and my older peers is different from the angst of adolescence a la Holden. Tbh, younger people tend to think in m…

I'm 31. I was 25 when I got married, which was also the same year the company I co-founded hit the skids and eventually a brick wall. That first year was really rough on us (we started with 1 child and had another in the middle of that year), but we survived and watching that company burn was one of the most valuable life lessons I've ever had. We've had another two kids since then, and I've learned a few other things along the way.

Before I was married, all of those fears and anxieties ruled my life. I think that's partly what attracted me to the startup world and ultimately to starting that company. I wanted to chase my ambitions and fight that feeling of loneliness. However, the great lesson I learned from that company, and ultimately from the last few years of marriage and kids is that you won't be alone when you choose to value the people you love over achievements you earn, stuff you buy, or even just stuff you work really hard on. I poured it on with the 90 and 100 hour weeks the last 6 months of that company and in the end the company crumbled and my hard work left me with nothing but bitterness toward my creation (I eventually got past the bitterness). Today I invest that time in my wife and my kids, and they are my world to me. They're my best friends. There's no earning their love, but the time I spend with them is never wasted. I don't get through the week, having prioritized them over other things, and think to myself "man, I really wish I'd spent an extra 20 hours on that personal project" that will never do anything for my personal fulfillment beyond some temporary ego boost.

Now. That's not to say I don't still love the startup and technology world. I do. And I still have those personal projects. And that professional community. I also love working hard on stuff that pushes the envelope. But the funny thing is that ever since I put that part of myself in a bounded box I've enjoyed it more and been more productive. There isn't the sense of having to keep up, and yet I'm still able to. Consequently I'm happier at work and since I don't draw my personal worth from it, I can take setbacks and move on and still enjoy it.

I don't know that everyone should get married, but it seems to me that, based on everyone I've ever known, that you best fight loneliness by surrounding yourself with people who will stick by you regardless of job, religion, social status , health, or anything else. To me, the question to ask is - if the world fell apart right now, would the people you prioritize still be with you?

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#23

Related but an off-shoot question, people who are "settled down," in your late 20's/30's/40's/50's/60's, have families and various obligations, how do you deal with loneliness? As someone who is on the precipice of turning 30 (27 currently), speaking strictly for myself - I've found that loneliness for me and my older peers is different from the angst of adolescence a la Holden. Tbh, younger people tend to think in m…

[deleted]

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#24

There was an interesting article recently about teens and social networking, and insight of the article was that teens want to socialize IRL, but there is nowhere for them to go without parental supervision. I would argue that this approximately true for adults, American cities don't have pedestrian-only town squares, the public transit is abysmal (because long ago they ripped out all the streetcars, which led to the…

Also worth a read is 'A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction' if you're interested in an architectural look at how humans might live together better.

Thanks for the link, I will probably read it. Are you familiar with Bjarke Ingels over at BIG, I thought his TED was super interesting, http://www.ted.com/talks/bjarke_ingels_3_warp_speed_architec...

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you link the article? I spent most of my youth "ruled" under extremely restrictive parents in a suburb that offered nowhere to go without a car, that my parents would never let me use. I was very lonely as a kid and even after I got to college, it took me a while to develop the social skills I needed to make myself happy. I ended up developing a strong hatred for the suburbs in my youth and have embraced the ur…

Don’t Blame Social Media if Your Teen Is Unsocial. It’s Your Fault If kids can’t socialize, who should parents blame? Simple: They should blame themselves. This is the argument advanced in It’s Complicated: The Social Lives of Networked Teens, by Microsoft researcher Danah Boyd. Boyd—full disclosure, a friend of mine—has spent a decade interviewing hundreds of teens about their online lives. What she has found, over…

It's a relevant point she brings forth - albeit a false one. Microsoft just as Google is much too biased in this debate and so is Danah Boyd. It is not just the parents fault, the upbringing and social life of a child is composed of many factors. It is not unreasonable to assume that most regular children at the age of ten are in possession of a smartphone and have working parents. At least half of the kids' days will be spent outside of parental jurisdiction and under the influence of other players. These players are - from most real to most virtual: Geolocation, Government, School, Teacher, Classmates/Clique, [...], Mobile device, Software company (Google, Microsoft et al). It is not just a mistake to blame parents, it is the deliberate attempt to throw off any kind of debate that needs to be had about the responsibility of tech companies. If kids learn that likes matter, they will behave accordingly.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#26
post #13
post #7

Interesting article, but I can't help feeling that for the author the feeling of loneliness is a symptom of something underlying. Which makes the loneliness itself much less interesting. The reason I say this is, because it affects reaction and treatment. If someone complains of persistent leg pain, you don't delve too deeply into the nature of the pain and whether society is sufficiently kind to leg-pain-sufferers,…

There is no 'right way round' for so-called symptoms or so-called 'underlying' conditions, because these things are subject to feedback. Positioning in social contexts affects brain chemistry, brain chemistry affects behavior, behavior affects positioning in social contexts. To name only a few of the causal lines that can be drawn. As a long time sufferer of all of these things, I've found the illness model of depres…

There is no 'right way round' for so-called symptoms or so-called 'underlying' conditions, because these things are subject to feedback.... I've found the illness model of depression to be very nearly useless...

It's good to see someone else who describes these things in terms of feedback rather than simple cause and effect. This is a model of neurology and physiology that needs to become more widespread.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t Blame Social Media if Your Teen Is Unsocial. It’s Your Fault If kids can’t socialize, who should parents blame? Simple: They should blame themselves. This is the argument advanced in It’s Complicated: The Social Lives of Networked Teens, by Microsoft researcher Danah Boyd. Boyd—full disclosure, a friend of mine—has spent a decade interviewing hundreds of teens about their online lives. What she has found, over…

It's a relevant point she brings forth - albeit a false one. Microsoft just as Google is much too biased in this debate and so is Danah Boyd. It is not just the parents fault, the upbringing and social life of a child is composed of many factors. It is not unreasonable to assume that most regular children at the age of ten are in possession of a smartphone and have working parents. At least half of the kids' days wil…

I haven't read the book yet, but based on my knowledge of what boyd has said over the past decade, I'd hazard a guess that she actually means that parents should stop trying to defend their kids from nebulous external threats and recognize that their own behavior is a significant part of the issue.

Last I checked, Google wasn't a daycare service. I'm not really sure why you're trying to insist that it is.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#28

There was an interesting article recently about teens and social networking, and insight of the article was that teens want to socialize IRL, but there is nowhere for them to go without parental supervision. I would argue that this approximately true for adults, American cities don't have pedestrian-only town squares, the public transit is abysmal (because long ago they ripped out all the streetcars, which led to the…

Also worth a read is 'A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction' if you're interested in an architectural look at how humans might live together better.

Happy City is one of the better "published in the last year" books on the topic:

http://www.amazon.com/Happy-City-Transforming-Through-Design...

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#29
This is an interesting article. I found myself agreeing with it most of the time. At the same time, as someone who has overcome a lonely path, I can't help but put a lot more emphasis on culture than on the others.

American culture is a lonely culture, as my wife is always pointing out. We send our kids to college alone. We retire alone. We look at social problems like poverty as if they are held by the individual alone. Loneliness is the price of freedom but it is also the price includes lack of real social and physical support.

When I moved to Indonesia two years ago, things went downhill with my marriage fast. My wife was always threatening to send me back to the States (every couple weeks) and I couldn't develop a sense of place in the midst of the uncertainty. I felt like I was half-way around the world from anyone who cared about me except for the kids. It was a very dark, depressing, and crippling place to be (business-wise, personally, and more). And so things continued for most of two years. Eventually we did overcome our problems (in no small part due to me eventually deciding I had to ignore her threats).

Here's the basic thing. It doesn't take many people to combat loneliness. Quality matters far more than quantity. Getting out there and meeting people is a smallish part of the battle. A much larger issue is building real friendships with a small number of people.

Having two or three close friends makes a world of difference.

Re: Why Loneliness Matters in the Social Age

#30

Related but an off-shoot question, people who are "settled down," in your late 20's/30's/40's/50's/60's, have families and various obligations, how do you deal with loneliness? As someone who is on the precipice of turning 30 (27 currently), speaking strictly for myself - I've found that loneliness for me and my older peers is different from the angst of adolescence a la Holden. Tbh, younger people tend to think in m…

I am getting close to 40.

> As someone who is on the precipice of turning 30 (27 currently), speaking strictly for myself - I've found that loneliness for me and my older peers is different from the angst of adolescence a la Holden.

Absolutely. Also I think it varies by age. When you are in your 60's, retiring, kids have grown and left, etc. I think that's one of the most lonely times in the lives of Americans. I watch my wife's grandmother who lives with various children as is convenient for them, and she may not have a permanent home or a lot of stuff of her own, but she is happier than most Americans I have seen in retirement. Having watched my own grandparents struggle with loneliness in retirement despite the fact that we have a reasonably close family by American standards is one of the reasons why I am relatively adamant that independent retirement is not a good thing. But having lived in both kinds of cultures, I don't think most of my fellow Americans are ready to make the tradeoffs that this would involve.

> Do you focus on your family or really close friends after twenties, or do you focus on pursuing your own ideas with a community of likely-minded people, or do you come up with some kind of philosophical reconciliation?

Yes to all three. But I think there is also a feeling when you are in your 20's that if you find that special someone you won't be lonely anymore. Well, that never really happens. So you start having a family, your social life constricts, and you find you are still lonely. What you have to do is find communities of like-minded people who you can work with, and you also have to come to terms with the fact that having other people may be necessary to prevent loneliness but it is not sufficient, and at some point you have to learn to focus on what you have instead of what you don't.

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