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A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

jeffarchibald.ca

141–150 of 323 posts

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#141
Going the opposite direction, I'm working 80% (32 hour weeks) by choice and it's awesome. I have so much more time for other interests and family and it's much less stressful. Of course I only get paid 80%, but that works for me.

I'm doing this at a major computer company and my management is supportive. Nonetheless, it took months of discussion and needed to get approved by the VP. And it's probably hurting my "career path".

Culturally, I find people don't understand working less than 100%. You have Friday off? Is that vacation? Is that a partial layoff? (I'm male, and in the US for context.)

Overall, it would be nice if working less than 40 hours were an option for more people.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#143
60 hours a week is a big much, but if you're working on your own company then I have no problem with it. Working on your own stuff, for your own benefit, is a totally different thing than working for someone else. If you're doing 60 hours a week to make someone else rich, you're most certainly doing it wrong.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#144
Hours-per-week is not the issue. The issue is the tradeoff between productivity-per-week (which is related to, but not identical to, hours-per-week) and how worthwhile the project is (in terms of what you'll sacrifice to achieve it).

So, if you're Jonas Salk working on a vaccine for polio, you're quite right to leave everything else in the dust and save people's lives (being highly worthwhile, sacrifices are made to get peak productivity).

If you're working for your ego, or for something ridiculous like letting people share pictures in a new way, or to silence some inner demons, then you may need to be a little more clear-eyed about the costs of your time investment.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. This is not an option for most us.

I'd wager that more than 25% of "full-time" employees in an office-worker setting are spending less than 30 hours per week actually working . Probably far more than 25%. How many facebook posts do you get at all hours of the workday? Assuming their job isn't social media community relations manager, those people aren't working ; they're simply attending their job.

This doesn't count. Working 20 hours a week but still having to sit an an office 40 hours a week makes me pretty much as horribly depressed as putting in 40 hours of effort at the same office.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#146

This false dichotomy is seriously getting annoying. If 60 hours is sustainable for you, do it. If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. But stop imposing onto others what is right or wrong when there are so many factors at play. Some of my most productive memories are summers studying and working for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week (= 72 hours). I didn't get tired, burned out, or anything. Another summ…

Indeed... And most of the friends around me who made it big also played it hard.

When Broadcom was nowhere several employees number xxx (with xxx less than 300) were, while in crunch-mode, sleeping in their trucks, on the parking lot, to deliver chip plans on time. Stock options have been good for them the day Broadcom was worth $12bn.

I've got a few friends who started a 3D-rendering business for TV ads, short movies and cartoons. 60 hours a week? Make it 80, 90 and occasionally more than one hundred (you read correctly). I'm talking about people working 15 hours a day, bringing their sleeping bags and pillows at work and eating in a few minutes. They now enjoy 40 employees working for them and have the good life.

I have friends who got money from a business angel and for whom, between angel money and before VC money came, life was work, work and more work.

I could tell you about other people, on the east coast, getting BA money and an office in which they'd sleep (and the girlfriend being surprised to see her new boyfriend living where he works)... And the exit they made selling to a big software company. No 40 hours a week either here but much, much more.

Or another friend setting up a commodity trading (?) company, who's always on the phone and on planes around the world, tracking the ships he's renting and working out deals left and right. Both of us work a lot, yet we find the time to meet (in this or that city in Europe) once in a while.

These people know about burnouts, crunch-mode and... Wealth. Lots of wealth. Yet money wasn't the drive. The drive is simply the desire to achieve great things (build a chip, publish a book, create a company, make an exit, ...).

I've written (and typeset) several books. The last weeks before the book left to go to the editor/publisher were easily 80+ hours a week, working until early in the morning and then taking a few hours of sleep. Rince and repeat. Total crunch-mode. I also know about naps on the bean bag on saturdays and even sundays (!) at Californian startups.

I understand not wanting to work more than 40 hours a week when you're an employee and have a life which you prefer more than your work... But when you're an entrepreneur and want to make a difference, 40 hours a week is nothing.

I'm not saying that there aren't very successful people who've never worked more than 40 hours a week (there are also people who never worked and won the lottery)...

All I'm saying is the entrepreneurs I know who've succeeded big times were (and most still are) relentless workers.

I'm in my forties and I just love what I do. It's saturday, and what did I do? Spent time with my SO, went to buy stuff to paint a room in the appartment, went for a cool drive with my oldtimer and... Spent several hours coding in Clojure..

I even find the time to spend some time on HN ^ ^

You can come with all the studies you want about how 40 hours a week is the limit not to break, unreasonable men will keep being driven by passion and will keep working more than that.

It's not black & white. You want 40 hours a week or, heck, why not 35: try to go to France if you want. Even try to fetch a 4 days out of 5 and you'll be doing 28 hours a week there.

But don't discourage the ones who simply want to work more.

EDIT: fixed a few sentences, not a native english speaker here

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#147
post #40

This article doesn't pass the smell test. There is nothing magical about 40 hours per week. 60 hours is just as arbitrary as 40. Also, it probably originated when people did actual physical labor, and so it wont apply to dev work. Countless people in the sciences have toiled day and night to bring about great discoveries - and that's a good thing. Question: Do non-software people (I'm thinking Scientists, Mathematici…

Management consultants have a culture of overtime that probably beats that of programmers. Investment bankers are on an even higher level. In their culture, overwork is also much more explicitly a badge of honor.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#148

This false dichotomy is seriously getting annoying. If 60 hours is sustainable for you, do it. If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. But stop imposing onto others what is right or wrong when there are so many factors at play. Some of my most productive memories are summers studying and working for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week (= 72 hours). I didn't get tired, burned out, or anything. Another summ…

Thank you so much for this. I've been kicking myself for working more hours than I've been told are good for me, even though working as few as 40 on what I care about makes me unhappy.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#149

This false dichotomy is seriously getting annoying. If 60 hours is sustainable for you, do it. If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. But stop imposing onto others what is right or wrong when there are so many factors at play. Some of my most productive memories are summers studying and working for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week (= 72 hours). I didn't get tired, burned out, or anything. Another summ…

This false dichotomy is seriously getting annoying. If 60 hours is sustainable for you, do it. If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. Two different things are frustrating about this simple homily. * It's very easy to fool yourself into thinking you can handle things you can't, especially with peer pressure, job pressure and so-forth involved. By the time your health is ruined, your marriage is ruin…

Its even easier to fool yourself into thinking you can't handle things that actually can handle.

At least when you take on something that's too much, there are signs of failing or your wellbeing declining.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#150

I work 40 hours a week at maximum - most weeks I work about 34 to 38 hours. You 80 hours a week guys, what the hell are you doing with your time? Are you divorced? No family? No friends? Is 'disrupting' an industry really that important to you?

My name is Rick and I'm a 80 hour a week guy. I'm 26, single, and have no pets. I have a family and friends, but I'm very transparent about my work habits and priorities as a full-stack engineer. Being so young, I see myself as training to be the person I want to be in the future. The best programmers in the world worked at it relentlessly. Sure, there are variances in the amount that they all worked, and some did it…

While you should do what you think is best for you, but since you mentioned training, remember, top athletes don't train 80h a week. They need rest, and your body and mind need rest too.

And this is coming from someone that used to work as much as you when younger.

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