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A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

jeffarchibald.ca

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Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#71

Post by sokoloff »

Avshalom wrote: post #64
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #56

This false dichotomy is seriously getting annoying. If 60 hours is sustainable for you, do it. If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. But stop imposing onto others what is right or wrong when there are so many factors at play. Some of my most productive memories are summers studying and working for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week (= 72 hours). I didn't get tired, burned out, or anything. Another summ…

>If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. This is not an option for most us.

I'd wager that more than 25% of "full-time" employees in an office-worker setting are spending less than 30 hours per week actually working. Probably far more than 25%.

How many facebook posts do you get at all hours of the workday? Assuming their job isn't social media community relations manager, those people aren't working; they're simply attending their job.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#72

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

asolove wrote: post #63
rickhanlonii wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My name is Rick and I'm a 80 hour a week guy. I'm 26, single, and have no pets. I have a family and friends, but I'm very transparent about my work habits and priorities as a full-stack engineer. Being so young, I see myself as training to be the person I want to be in the future. The best programmers in the world worked at it relentlessly. Sure, there are variances in the amount that they all worked, and some did it…

Hi, I'm Adam, 27, married with a two year old and one more on the way. I commend your efforts and wish you luck. Some small percentage of people who start out down the path you're on make it to the end as true technical experts. All I will do is put in a word that most people who start down that track don't finish, but they still get a chance to change the world. Their chance comes through the coworkers they mentor,…

So most people don't make it.

Do you really think that you're telling him something he doesn't already know?

Some people are served well by humility, others aren't. Just because humility and practicality works for you (and me, I might add) doesn't mean that it's the approach for everyone.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#73

Post by cdcarter »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #70
Avshalom wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. This is not an option for most us.

Not an option?

Yes. Most people who are employed full-time are expected to work full-time.

Yes, they could leave full-time work and fine new sources of income, but that no longer falls under "just work 30 hours instead".

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#74

Post by ritchiea »

DoctorZeus wrote: post #62
rickhanlonii wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My name is Rick and I'm a 80 hour a week guy. I'm 26, single, and have no pets. I have a family and friends, but I'm very transparent about my work habits and priorities as a full-stack engineer. Being so young, I see myself as training to be the person I want to be in the future. The best programmers in the world worked at it relentlessly. Sure, there are variances in the amount that they all worked, and some did it…

I admire your passion and dedication to having a positive impact on the world. My challenge to you is this: What gives you confidence that the impact you'll have on the world will in fact be positive? Engineering certainly gives us the ability to impact the world. Increasingly and since the first industrial revolution power goes to the greatest engineers. But are the skills that give us the ability to change the worl…

To be fair to the poster you're replying to, he did mention reading Thinking Fast & Slow which is by the nobel prize winning psychologist Daniel Kahneman. That's no web programming manual.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#75

Post by tjtrapp »

iambateman wrote: post #33
AutoCorrect wrote: post #9

I had a boss tell me at an end of year meeting that another employee had worked 1000 more hours that year than I had. I looked my boss in the eye and said "then he's doing something wrong". Consistent 60 hour weeks is a failure of management and of the employee to better manage their time. Especially if you are salaried.

This week I was told another employee has been "working weekends for months" to get the project done, passive aggressively implying I hadn't done the same. The problem with this is the guy is addicted to working weekends. He's been doing it for years and it makes everyone else look like "slackers", despite his obvious burnout.

Could he just be bad at his job? Maybe he needs the extra time to compensate for what he does not accomplish during the M-F work week.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#76

Post by saamm »

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #37
gedrap wrote: post #10

I am doing do a degree and paying the bills by freelancing. So 50-60hr/wk, combined education and work, is something regular. It is possible to sustain it, if you are an introvert like me. It's just important not to do the same thing all the time. My degree is focused on low level programming and hardware, and I mainly do AngularJS development for living. So this kind of switch definitely helps. Other thing which is…

Please don't suggest that introversion has anything whatsoever to do with what you've described. Introversion/extroversion has little or nothing to do with overworking oneself.

I think he may be implying that it is easier to handle the lower levels of social interaction (with friends/family) that come along with working a lot of hours if you're more introverted.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#77

Post by jleyank »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #56

This false dichotomy is seriously getting annoying. If 60 hours is sustainable for you, do it. If only 30 hours is sustainable for you, do that instead. But stop imposing onto others what is right or wrong when there are so many factors at play. Some of my most productive memories are summers studying and working for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week (= 72 hours). I didn't get tired, burned out, or anything. Another summ…

zxcvvcxz says: "Regarding friends/partners/etc. If the amount of hours you want to work isn't compatible with your partner's expectations... get a new partner. Seriously. Your priorities aren't aligned. I don't know what I'd do if my partner expected me to be home for dinner at 6pm on weeknights... Oh wait I do, I'd get a new partner, which I did. Now everyone involved (myself, previous partner, new partner) are very happy."

Man, I hope you develop some empathy before you end up directing others. I've worked for some of these automatons, and it results in a toxic environment with limited productivity. Far more gets done when your people are excited to be along for the ride.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#78

Post by bestrapperalive »

I agree with the headline if only because "hours present at desk" is a completely facile metric for performance. What matters is what was accomplished, not how much time was taken. Is your feature or project closer to (successful) completion? Have you automated away the busywork time-sink that has has been slowing down your team? Is your organization now more able to effectively use its scarce resources? If not, fuck your "hours."

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#79

Post by just3ws »

I was just let go from a company the day before yesterday and this was a primary reason. It was a startup and the CEO said that it's just how things had to be. I did in the end explain my position and why what they were doing was chaos and unnecessary. They were in a constant state of breaking or incomplete but they think that spending nights and weekends is how it's supposed to be so they will continue on down that destructive path and just keep on patting each other's backs for being so dedicated.

Re: A 60-Hour Work Week is Not a Badge of Honour

#80

Post by ditoax »

I am 29 and did several years at a large blue chip on 60-80 hour weeks (when the odd month at 100 hours!) and it gave me a break down. Perhaps I am just not as "strong" as others but I much prefer being in control of my own life (social, work, personal). I learned a lot but personally I don't feel it has done me any good in the long run. Interestingly the people who have done "the best" when it comes to promotion/salary are the ones who didn't slave away for 60+ hours a week so I question why others do it.

With the exception of your own business of course.

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