So, economic models are more or less based on, or at least constrained by, human psychology, right? Communism and socialism don't work because peoples' brains aren't wired to do lots of work for little or no or unequal reward. This isn't restricted to just people, either, it's been observed in monkeys ( http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/0917_030917_... , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKhAd0Tyny0 -- it…
"peoples' brains aren't wired to do lots of work for little or no or unequal reward" This is the actuality for most people in the West or the Third World. Thinks sweat shops, paddy fields, StarBucks...
The Star Trek Economy
101–110 of 240 posts
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#102The way people talk about socialism and communism in the west show the sad state of our education system. communism is already a big part of our lives. When you sit at the dinner table and ask for the salt, you get it. When are at work and you ask for a code review and the person gives it to you. If the need is great enough, or the obstacles to ability are small enough, people do things. From each according to their…
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#103I think this is a useless exercise. The economics of Star Trek won't be coherent, because it was pieced together through multiple series and some wishful thinking while retaining certain properties needed for the universe to be interesting. You can't have a TV show about drone ships flying around and beaming back exploration data via subspace. Without Star Trek replicators in the foreseeable future, all the 3d printi…
Another interesting SciFi exploration of economics is the Unincorporated Man ( https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4025200-the-unincorporat... ). Everyone is incorporated at birth, and trades shares in themselves (paying dividends once they are earning) to advance in life. People who don't have majority of themselves can't make their own decisions.
I couldn't even finish the second book because it didn't even have the interesting bits about people being incorporated, it was just a poorly written sci-fi war novel.
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#104I'd suggest the writer reads his Marx and Engels, and even some Adam Smith before venturing into writing on topics like this.
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#105> If it were, the credit would be too much like money because a) accounting is done in it, b) it is issued by a governing body (like a fiat currency) and c) it is fungible, i.e. you can already buy things with it and if you could buy things with it AND a and b were true, it would pretty much be a currency. By that reasoning, the Joule is the currency of the Federation. a) The article already supposes that "the accoun…
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#106So, economic models are more or less based on, or at least constrained by, human psychology, right? Communism and socialism don't work because peoples' brains aren't wired to do lots of work for little or no or unequal reward. This isn't restricted to just people, either, it's been observed in monkeys ( http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/0917_030917_... , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKhAd0Tyny0 -- it…
The UK newspapers regularly have articles about the increased use of food banks. I haven't looked into it at all so can't comment on details such as how much is genuine need versus playing the game, or the rate of increase, etc. Combined with wage deflation or stagnation, food inflation from devalued currency counteracts the expected low prices of low-scarcity. It seems that given how much people dick around with the systems, a low-scarcity economy is a theoretical concept, too simplistic to exist in a complex environment, buffeted by politicians, economists, bankers, etc. I have no economics education, so I'm likely talking rubbish, please correct.
On the matter of capitalism, I've come to the conclusion that it is fundamentally corrupt. The entire thing is a capital feedback loop. Not in the self-regulating sense ascribed to free markets. The more capital you have, the more capital you are able to accrue. And capital is power. The old saying, the rich get richer, is not just the superficial, flippant comment it might appear, flung around in the pub - it describes a core characteristic of capitalism. The amassing of capital does enable progress with big projects, but at the cost of having a system with a blatant foundational design flaw. People talk about bubbles as if they're a flaw in the system, but they're not - they're a characteristic of capitalism, which would be better named bubblism. I'm not commenting on whether capitalism is good or bad, or the pros and cons, rather I guess I'm surprised at all the discussion of the peripheral issues, but not of the foundational design, syntax instead of architecture. I'm not suggesting there's a better alternative, again, just surprised that it seems, from my layperson point of view, that there are so many people doing so much around the elephant in the room. It's standing there dumping over and over, and people clean the floor, spray the air freshener, but never touch the elephant. Yes, there are people in favour of other systems - they've come up with little. Distilling capitalism to this feedback clumping flaw, and I consider such exponential imbalance in a deliberate system to be a flaw, is it really so difficult to design a foundation that avoids that? Tax is a response to the flawed system, it doesn't address the design of the system.
Edit: I always read some comments before I read the article, to see if the article is worth reading, which is fine, but I should probably read the article before I start commenting!
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#107Re: The Star Trek Economy
#108>The big challenge here is how does society get someone to do the menial jobs that cannot be done in an automated manner. Are there examples of menial jobs in the Star Trek universe? I would imagine by then there simply are no menial jobs. I'm not sure what menial job examples there are that can't be automated. The jobs left over are interesting jobs. I'd imagine the motivation to do so are on par with the same motiv…
There was a Star Trek episode where Picard sees an alternate future where he ended up with low rank. He was desperate to get back to the interesting higher-rank jobs
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#109The Volokh Conspiracy post, How Federal is Star Trek's Federation?, was probably the best thing I've read on Trek's political economy. http://www.volokh.com/posts/1190182117.shtml
Great link! One thing that always bothered me about The Federation was how they treated certain worlds and members. Recall the TNG episode Journey's End where the Enterprise is sent to remove what amounted to some 'Space Native Americans' from a planet the Federation had given to Cardassians in a treaty. The inhabitants in question were members of the Federation (with all the rights that was supposed to confer) but t…
Additionally, the Cardies have either a similar or better military compared to the Federation, and the treaty helped prevent full out war (that later showed up, but in the form of the Dominion War). Giving up a few planets with small populations doesn't seem all that bad for stopping what could've been the largest war in the quadrant.
As for Insurrection, it's commonly accepted that Dougherty was working alone, without the support of the rest of Starfleet or the Federation. It's not implausible, considering he was an admiral and could very easily order ships places without much questioning.
The Son'a are nowhere near as advanced as the Cardassians, the Federation could easily take them if they tried to start something.
Re: The Star Trek Economy
#110You don't need to speculate because there already is a model for post-scarcity economics in the form of free and open source software. The free software economy is more like an economy of attention or allegiance. It has sometimes been called a "doocracy" in that those folks who do things tend to get the most attention.