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How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

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Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#681

Post by reefoctopus »

maratd wrote: post #409
gameshot911 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually see a silver lining in this story. The worst thing an officer of the was able to do was inconvenience you for a day. Compare that to pretty much another other time in recorded history, and indeed still many places today, and you could have been locked up for far longer for pissing off someone in an authority position. Now obviously this is a ridiculous situation and the officer was on a powertrip, but you…

> The worst thing an officer of the was able to do was inconvenience you for a day. Wrong. Job application. Have you ever been arrested? No job. Mortgage application. Have you ever been arrested? No mortgage. No house. Rental application. Have you ever been arrested? No apartment. These are just a few places you will have the door slammed in your face. Now, the OP was lucky, because the matter was dismissed, the arre…

I wouldn't want to work for a company that would slam the door in my face because I was arrested for a petty offence like the one mentioned. There are plenty of companies out there that will treat me like a human being.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#682

Post by snsr »

josh2600 wrote: post #88

I know Peretz personally and he's one of the most rational people I've ever met. There's some question as to whether he should've left the scene or not and I think there's some discussion to be had there, but what happened afterwards is unquestionably wrong. This is who the police stripped naked and put in jail: http://www.brandeis.edu/magazine/2013/spring/featured-storie... This is not a person we should fear. I und…

> I've heard other thoughts in this thread about not trusting police

A rational individual in America is absolutely justified in not trusting police. Wake up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#683

Post by Fuxy »

America The land of the free... if you're a cop and careful to never get caught on camera or recorder in any way shape or form.

But what do you expect when you send a swat team for every arrest.

Even the cops start to think that their allows to use as much force as they like.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#684

Post by retrogradeorbit »

williamcotton wrote: post #223
forgottenpass wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is some sort of thinly veiled attack on our public servants and what seems to be public government infrastructure in general. I'm all for calling bullshit on general unfounded anti-government rhetoric in general. But law enforcement are not your friends. They're trained that the citizen is an untrustworthy crook, why should we treat them any better?

Dude, this is about someone getting in to a bike accident. Please, for fuck's sake, if you see someone hit by a car or otherwise bleeding on the street, do the sane thing and call 911. I can't believe we're having this conversation...

The social contract is broken.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#685

Post by jjoonathan »

apayan wrote: post #521
jjoonathan wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many ways talking can help. It can help you avoid the police officer's discretionary punishments. It can help you avoid increased scrutiny that turns up something incriminating. It's less probable that it will help you avoid being punished due to a baldfaced lie on the part of the officer, since presumably the courts are good at filtering those out, but it's not impossible. Once you require the services of…

I can't recommend enough watching this video. The law professor explains why you should never speak to the police. It's 46 minutes long, but every minute is pure gold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

This video was what I had in mind when I wrote

> the "never talk to police" strategy ... only starts to probabilistically pay off after you've gotten to the point of requiring complex court proceedings (which you might never have gotten to if you were more cooperative in the first place).

> Once you require the services of a trial lawyer, the benefits of talking are off the table and the price of silence looks like pocket change. That's why you hear the advice "never talk to the police." Not because it's a good idea in general (try it next time you get a traffic ticket and tell me how it goes), but because it's a very bad idea in certain very specific cases, which happen to be precisely the cases seen by those giving the advice. Your prior probabilities are different, and your behavior should reflect that.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#686

Post by brazzy »

fuckpig wrote: post #380
bmelton wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a ton of law around 'lawful orders' by the police, and how a citizen is supposed to respond to them. Ignoring everything else (please), George Zimmerman was accused of not following a 911 operator's "lawful order" to leave the scene. While I think most of America would have been happy for him to have heeded that device, it is not necessarily a 'lawful order', unless there was a reason for him not to have been…

Unlike the author here, Trayvon Martin was an actual bad actor.

For standing his ground against racist stalking and getting shot for it?

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#687

Post by retrogradeorbit »

GFischer wrote: post #673
scarmig wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...call 911 and be assaulted and thrown in solitary for... well, some doubtlessly minor reason, if any at all? No thanks. If someone's having a serious stroke and immobile, yes, of course call an ambulance. A broken arm or leg? A Lyft is probably your best bet. I'd draw the line at something like "minor heart attack."

Wow. In my country (Uruguay), you can and should call an ambulance for broken bones :( And ambulance service costs U$ 50/month and is included with 90% of the populations' health services.

You know America is in decline when Uruguay is out classing her!

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#688

Post by elohesra »

antr wrote: post #661
apayan wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't recommend enough watching this video. The law professor explains why you should never speak to the police. It's 46 minutes long, but every minute is pure gold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

I find it ironic that when the cop starts talking he mentions that in the US people should be thankful because they are given a Miranda warning, because, according to him, in other parts of the world like in "Spain and Italy" cops beat up citizens. Last time I check such abuse can't be seen anywhere in Europe. More cop BS.

Yeah, it definitely can. I've lived in Europe all my life, and traveled over Europe since I was kid, and I've seen mainland European police openly abusing people on the street. I've seen cops randomly firing their firearms in the air as 'crowd control' (the crowd in question was three old women trying to get on a boat, this was in Greece), policing openly punching someone in the face for some remark they didn't like (again, Greece), police demanding a person's passport papers at a port and refusing to return them until UK police got involved (France), and so on.

The only countries where I've never seen any open abuse by police so far have been Britain and Germany, and I haven't spent a lot of time in Germany.

EDIT: Actually, there has recently been a famous case in Britain where a police officer shoved a citizen to the floor and the citizen died of internal injuries [0]. I didn't actually witness the abuse, but it proves that even the UK isn't immune.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#689

Post by jjoonathan »

pessimizer wrote: post #520
jjoonathan wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many ways talking can help. It can help you avoid the police officer's discretionary punishments. It can help you avoid increased scrutiny that turns up something incriminating. It's less probable that it will help you avoid being punished due to a baldfaced lie on the part of the officer, since presumably the courts are good at filtering those out, but it's not impossible. Once you require the services of…

Non-cooperation is just as likely to make a cop lose interest as cooperation. When you cooperate to the degree that you're obligated to, and decline where you're not, that can cause a cop who respects the law and knows that they have no cause to move on, and I've seen it happen often. It can also piss him/her off and make them decide to try to ruin your life. The more you speak to a cop, the more likely you are to sa…

> Non-cooperation is just as likely to make a cop lose interest as cooperation.

If they're in a good mood today. Maybe.

> The more you speak to a cop, the more likely you are to say something that you'll regret.

Yes. My point was that staying completely silent makes it more likely you'll piss off the cop. You'll regret that, too.

> Thinking that you can control the situation is a mistake.

Right back at you.

> You can't make a cop not beat you to death by talking.

If you can make a cop beat you to death by (in their eyes) being obstinate, the difference is immaterial.

> Silence is simply a dominant strategy.

I still don't buy it, unless the cop is already antagonized or you suspect that a judge/jury will be involved before this is all over.

Re: How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

#690

Post by BugBrother »

fulafel wrote: post #677
snitko wrote: post #156

I feel very sorry for the OP. Unfortunately, this is what happens when you're not a customer of the organization that protects you. Police officers will not be paid less if they mistreat the people they're supposed to protect. To get them to justice, as was mentioned in another comment, would cost tons of money and time and there's no guarantee of any kind of result. They know it. The only places where police is actu…

> only places where police is actually humane and does mostly good are Scandinavian countries Research does not seem to bear this out. See eg this Gallup study: http://www.gallup.com/poll/102346/many-world-citizens-trust-... Of the top 10 "public trusts the police", only 1 or 2 are Scandinavian countries (definitions vary whether Finland is part of Scandinavia).

Afaik, Swedish police don't take bribes and generally don't commit criminal acts. At least not if compared with most other countries.

The main problem with Sweden is that the police is trusted to drink coffee instead of working. :-)

(That was a simplification, the Swedish police seems to mainly have organisational issues. The Finnish police is one of the most trusted societal functions there. I have never understood why a Swedish government won't head hunt top level Finnish police and fire the locals... Just the threat ought to be enough.)

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