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The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

dallasobserver.com

321–330 of 356 posts

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#321
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another interesting point is when the system acts irrationally, this is not lost on psychopaths and those with evil and malicious intents. Knowing that a snapshot of a Facebook post taken out of context can land that person in jail for months is a goldmine opportunity for some people. This just adds to the list the other things could include: plant child porn on their machine, call the terrorist hotline with a tip, l…

A Facebook post out of context, heck... you could doctor the HTML using browser dev tools to make anyone appear to say anything at all on Facebook.

As a person who has sat on a grand jury, I can speak from personal experience, and let me tell you:

Listening to pud-pulling detectives stumble through the technical details of correlating an IP address to a service provider, at the rehearsed prompts provided by power-tripping district attourneys, and then glancing across the 22 other grand jurors, some withed glazed eyes, and others desperately nodding in agreement, as if they had something to prove to the phantom presence of their usually condescending 13-year-old children about their technical savvy, and the relationship that holds with being able to read a cable bill, I was deeply disturbed by the very low bar that was set, in order to prove to the lowest common denomenator that someone committed a computer crime, when I was out-voted on a whether to bring a flimsy case to trial.

Afterward, I casually chatted up each of the people that voted to bring a guy before the judge for allegedly creating fake credit cards and charging thousands of dollars under someone else's name, to gauge whether they understood what they had just voted on.

Most of them had a hard time using their smart phones for anything besides phone calls, couldn't tell me what an IP address actually was, couldn't readily distinguish AOL dial up service and AOL keyword searches from "Googling the internet" or typing in a URL in their browsers address bar, and were mystified by the difference between typing up a Word document and attaching it to an e-mail, versus just typing and sending the e-mail itself.

The difference between how quickly things went to trial, or how long we deliberated on a particular case often hinged on how close to 5PM it was. The DA's seemed to be aware of this, and the complexity and "appeal" of cases and the order of their presentation seemed to be planned accordingly.

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#322
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how when someone lands on the Moon, then it's because of the greatness of being American. If some American person or group does something bad, it has everything to do with being such a heterogeneous country. This probably has more to do with being Human than being American. Someone would probably bring up some analogy about the Olympics and nationalism as a retort. The thing is, though, when the US wins th…

That would be valid if we were talking about some criminal justice program that Maine or any other state shared with Texas. Kinda like how the entire United States submits athletes to the make up the Olympic teams. Or how engineers and scientists from the entire country made up the Nasa team. The ENTIRE point was that Maine, Vermont, Ohio, Alaska, Florida, and of course Texas have separate, though similar Criminal ju…

Fair point. I'll try to think of a more applicable example next time

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Facebook post out of context, heck... you could doctor the HTML using browser dev tools to make anyone appear to say anything at all on Facebook.

As a person who has sat on a grand jury, I can speak from personal experience, and let me tell you: Listening to pud-pulling detectives stumble through the technical details of correlating an IP address to a service provider, at the rehearsed prompts provided by power-tripping district attourneys, and then glancing across the 22 other grand jurors, some withed glazed eyes, and others desperately nodding in agreement,…

Seems exactly like modern day witchcraft/wizardry hunt.

If a Middle Age dude was an expert in chemistry, he'd probably be tried quite similarly. The fact that no one around him could even comprehend what chemistry is, is now completely irrelevant to them ruining his life.

Now replace that with technology, the people with modern day morons and death with impossibly high bail/languishing in prison for years together ruining any chance of an average, let alone decent future and you've got what we have today.

The point is, they don't know the subject yet feel that they know enough. History, it seems never changes.

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#324

> Until that point, his only brush with the law was a temporary restraining order two years earlier. > "He started threatening me, saying that he would kill me. ... I told the school officers, [and] they started watching him really closely. He would say that he would shoot up the school." So I'll start by playing Devil's Advocate very briefly. It's interesting how facts can be shaped with different language ("his onl…

The ideal of a government of laws is just an illusion. We are a government of men and women who pull whatever crap they can get away with.

This case was so badly botched even before one gets to free speech questions that one wonders why, at some point, the state didn't just admit error and agree to have the case dismissed. This reads like "let's see. There are 10 Amendments in the Bill of Rights. How many of them can we mess with? Now obviously we can't violate the 3rd, 9th, or 10th amendments here but maybe we can mess with the first, second, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, and eigth..."

One wonders why they stopped at the Bill of Rights. Maybe they could get the city to pass a Bill of Attainder while they are at it. Maybe they could have gone for broke and asked the state to station national guardsmen in his bedroom on release?

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#325
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average person does not make a cost-benefit analysis for things like this because that would require admitting that the question is complicated, or must result in some risk of death. Instead they silently drop the cost half of the equation by telling themselves that 0% risk of death must be possible, and rationalize away the costs of such a delusion by ignoring cases like this, or figuring that the victim must ha…

I think it's more that most people operate on the (apparently mistaken) assumption that the police are here to __protect__ us, and to find out who is guilty, while also exercising discretion and not prosecuting people who, paraphrasing the article, meant no harm but acted like an asshole. Thus, people figure that it's "better to be safe than sorry", and assume that the police and justice system will Find The Truth an…

IANAL and I am not 100% sure which part of the Stored Communciations Act covers the private messages. But either they need a search warrant or they just need to subpoena them (depending on which section applies). I suspect a search warrant is required for content but not 100% sure.

Now if they needed a search warrant (which is quite possible, if this was treated like email and less than 180 days old), then it is quite possible they asked for one and got laughed at by the magistrate.

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, people have children. The protection they feel must be absolute, and here is someone who threatening them. If someone came up to me on the street and screamed I'm going to fucking kill you, I wouldn't argue for his freedom of speech.

He didn't run up to someone in the street. But even so, would you argue for 8 years in prison for screaming at someone?

The thing is that a true threat, something that is directed and credible, and forces someone to actually protect themselves against it, can be rightly criminalized by the states.

In other words, it isn't screaming at someone, it is a true and credible threat, that might be worth punishing relatively harshly.

Let me put this another way. Suppose instead of screaming at someone the individual went up to the home of a black family and burned a cross on their sidewalk (so no tresspassing) at 2am, and left a piece of cardboard on their door saying "Watch out. We are coming for you!" That's a pretty classic terroristic threat in US history. It may consist entirely of expressive acts and no real property crime. Certainly that's worthy of significant punishment.

Now this case doesn't even come close to that hypothetical and I think the differences are illustrative. It isn't specific. It isn't a threat directed at the target. It isn't disruptive by itself. So if the individual isn't taking any steps to make it happen, I think it really should fall in the category protected by Brandenburg v. Ohio. Indeed, if you read footnote 1 of that case, you will see that the speech at issue here was a lot less likely to cause imminent lawless action, was a lot less terroristic, and was a lot less credible than the speech found protected in that case.

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#327

> Until that point, his only brush with the law was a temporary restraining order two years earlier. > "He started threatening me, saying that he would kill me. ... I told the school officers, [and] they started watching him really closely. He would say that he would shoot up the school." So I'll start by playing Devil's Advocate very briefly. It's interesting how facts can be shaped with different language ("his onl…

Well, people have children. The protection they feel must be absolute, and here is someone who threatening them. If someone came up to me on the street and screamed I'm going to fucking kill you, I wouldn't argue for his freedom of speech.

> Well, people have children. The protection they feel must be absolute, and here is someone who threatening them.

Meh....

While I was driving my two kids to school today (in Jakarta), my youngest climbed on my lap. Where I am there are no laws against that, so I just kept driving.

I think it is interesting that the people I know who have no kids fit your view of looking for absolute protection more than the actual parents I know. There's a certain point where, as a parent, you come to terms with the fact that the world is a dangerous place.

> If someone came up to me on the street and screamed I'm going to fucking kill you, I wouldn't argue for his freedom of speech.

This would be true especially if you knew the person and had reason to believe that the individual really intended to do that.

On the other hand, if it was one of your bowling buddies you were slated to play with the next day and he came up to you and said, "Tomorrow, I am gonna fucking kill you with a 300!" I would totally say "free speech" and I wouldn't think he was going to bring over the elite Spartan guard and kill you with Greek swords or something.....

So these things require context.

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#328
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow your first remark. Are you trying to say that because he said "kindergarten" instead of naming a specific kindergarten that it's no longer threatening or a threat?

Yes exactly. It's the difference between "I'm so angry I could kill someone right now!" and "I'm so angry I could kill so-and-so neighbor right now!"

There's also a huge difference between screaming the latter to unrelated people and screaming it to the so-and-so neighbor.

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#329
post #244
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison in the US isn't about rehabilitation it's about punishment. No one goes to prison thinking they're going to come out as a better person with a new outlook on life. They're going to come out war-torn and barely above functional with little to no prospects.

And why are we paying tax dollars for this? Especially when some of these prisons are run by for-profit corporations? If there's a single way to spur the economy it would be to close down many of these prisons, and reprogram the law enforcement goal of populating them.

Where else are profitable prison industries to find workers?

Edit: This is a slightly complex relationship but it holds. Once you start down a path of mass incarceration, there's pressure to find a profitable use for prisoners. Once you have a profit-making use, there's a demand for more prisoners. So while it is chicken and egg, it's pretty clear that the demand is a factor today. It is also worth noting that the the 13th Amendment specifically allows slavery as punishment for a crime.

Re: The Facebook Comment That Ruined a Life

#330

Wow, I didn't realise US police were that bad. After reading this I don't think I could ever feel safe enough to visit the US. Sounds like you'd have a better chance of getting justice in an African dictatorship where at least the dont-rape-me bribe would be affordable. Tourists really should be warned about this, because it's not the image the US tourist boards present to us at all.

To be fair, this seems like a real outlier. I read court cases for fun (IANAL) and very rarely do you see cases like this come up. For the most part, most police officers I have known are respectable, decent, responsible individuals.

There are bad apples, of course. But this case is horrible, but it isn't just the police. The District Attorney's office in this case was probably responsible for more of the mess than the police department. It is the DA's office that decides whether to charge the alleged offender, is responsible for working with the police to build a case, etc.

This story is so full of warning signs of an out-of-control prosecutor that it is beyond outrage. Ever wonder why they couldn't get the full words from Facebook? Because Facebook wouldn't give it to them? More likely because a judge wouldn't approve their request based on the evidence they had. The decision to push ahead in that case is entirely the DA's call.

The police in the US are generally speaking pretty good. I don't fault them. You just have to respect the fact that anywhere criminal investigation is about coming up with a good narrative, so it's better for everyone if you don't say too much.

Our problem though is with prosecutors, who, unlike police, can't get sued over crap like this and who keep getting handed more power by things like mandatory sentencing guidelines....

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